Discussion of Inadequate business descriptions, and other questionable loans

[Guest]

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[funkywhuff]

That's what the idea is of clicking on the loan Dan, so you can see what it is for. 

I personally don't think that minor issues like that should detract from the real issues Kiva faces of finding more MFIs and getting more quality loans posted.

Let's keep this thread for those 'questionable' businesses and loans rather than semantics 

[RichardF]

This isn't a semantics issue.  It's a business model issue.  Kiva claims to list business loans everywhere they market the site.  If they want to post consumer loans, then they should create a new Sector for them with related Activities, such as Home Improvement or Education.  Who knows how many different topics have addressed this issue?

[QueenOfHearts]

And Richard....why DO you put quotes on everything?

But I do agree that perhaps, when they have time to tweak, Kiva might consider a separate category for non-business loans.
Queen

[simba]

It's not a 'symantic' or 'business model' issue.  It is the question of ethics.  How can you put up such loans when you market yourself as a conduit for loaning to 'poor' businesses to improve their lives?  These people are not poor.  Personal loans open up gateway for fraudulent loans.  The rational that let the market decide is a poor cop out - actually market did send a signal.  I had counted that during the last onslaught of such loans it took about 10-12 days to fund these loans - when the average time is about 3 days.  I personally am staying out of loaning and see how things go in the next 6 months or so.   

[cpbailey]

Richard and Queen,

I think HOUSING is the category for personal home construction, remodel and repairs. 

Housing -- Personal residence with the work used for living not business
Construction -- Rental housing units or building houses to sell

If construction is within the home but is used for business, then it belongs under the business type.

Is this along the lines of what you would like to see?

Colette

[Diane R]

THIS IS HENRY'S POST FROM THE ALERT/REPORT THREAD

(I could not figure out how to Move it here to the correct thread, so I had to copy it to post it here.  I'm sorry this sort of fouls up the flow, but I couldn't find the right moderator tool to use... assuming one exists.  Sorry for the confusion!  If Henry copies/pastes his post from the alert/report thread here, I will delete this one.)


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This is really starting to sound like something we went through already and very recently. Yes KIVA reads this forum, that's great.  However to present a problem (such as the IMPROPERLY posted REPAID when they should state REFUNDED post regarding the BAD PRISMA loans) it is more appropriate to DIRECT these inquiries to KIVA.

I believe LIZ or some representative even posted something similar in a post.   

[RichardF]

Colette,  yes, Housing-Construction seems to be for consumer loans and Construction-Carpentry, etc. seem to be for business loans. 

To me, whether Housing and other consumer loans should be listed is a business model question.  The same holds for lending to anyone who earns more than $2/day.  The same holds for paying lenders interest.

To me, ethical issues involve fraud on the part of borrowers, MFIs or Kiva.  I know of no fraud on the part of Kiva and I believe they have addressed such issues from field partners when they arose.  Borrowers seems to state their intent for how to use the loan. 

I don't see any issue of deception here either on the part of borrowers.  If folks believe Kiva is being deceptive in terms of the types of borrowers (too rich) and loans funded (not businesses), then I support them pointing out what they were led to believe that isn't supported by what they see AND Kiva clarifying who the site lends to and for what purposes.

[cpbailey]

Richard,

I agree with you about the housing loans needing to be addressed by Kiva.  Microfinance DOES support enhancing housing quality/supply.  However, Kiva doesn't have that in their goals.  So the discontent is that there is an expectation by many that ALL loans are businesses and this is not the case.

Personally, I support the idea of housing; I just want good write-ups.  I WON'T lend unless a write-up is well written.  (I did one housing loan in Samoa.  She had already had a business loan and had graduated to qualifying for a housing loan.)  If someone else doesn't like housing, they can loan elsewhere.

Miscategorizing a home construction as construction instead of housing is probably just confusion over how it fits.  I doubt it is deception. 

Ideally these will issues will get fixed eventually.

Specifically on the ABOUT Kiva section it says :


What We Do

We let you loan to the working poor

Kiva lets you connect with and loan money to unique small businesses in the developing world. By choosing a business on Kiva.org, you can "sponsor a business" and help the world's working poor make great strides towards economic independence. Throughout the course of the loan (usually 6-12 months), you can receive email journal updates from the business you've sponsored. As loans are repaid, you get your loan money back.   

No where does it mention housing.  A secondary goal could be added.  Although I have to admit that doing so means the writing won't be as concise or snappy.  Maybe someone can better figure out how to be inclusive of housing...


Colette

[RichardF]

Yes, MFIs are doing their thing.  Microcredit/lending is more than business loans, and microfinance is more than microcredit.  Clearly, the scope of what many MFIs do is beyond the scope of what Kiva says it does.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Kiva just needs to be more clear about where the bondaries actually are.

I also support Kiva clarifying a related goal they've already demonstrated with a statement to the effect, "You also can help the world's working poor improve the quality of their lives through loans that support meeting their housing, health, education and other basic needs."

[Henry]

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=18040
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=18039

what do these do for ya?

edit: add:   
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=18035
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=18038
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=18037
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=18036 (probably same place)

"Hey ladies...anyone want a loan!"   I guess this is just the way it has to be done?