Loans to women are really to men

[Guest]

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[Nicole & Hiren]

Something encouraging is going on at the MFI Asasah in Pakistan. A woman is borrowing for herself and not for a man: http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=29531. It's the first time I see it.

There was another one here, http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=29534

This is anecdotal, but I spoke to my mother-in-law, who is from India, about these loans to women in Pakistan. She comes from an area of India right near the Pakistani border (and besides, Indians and Pakistanis are essentially the same people). She agreed that giving the money to the wife, even if the loan is for the husband, does give the woman status in the relationship and in the community. She said that many of these woman live in horrible conditions, and this can only improve things for them. Since I can't lend to India right now, I'm going to try to lend to Pakistan as much as I am able.

I will indeed try to look for loans where the woman is the direct recipient, and I can understand why others would want to make that their sole objective. However, please realize that there are cultural issues at work here beyond what most of us are familiar with. If you choose to make a loan to an individual in Pakistan--man or woman--understand that you're helping someone very much. And you're making a difference in that particular household.

As an aside, I went to Kutch, where my in-laws were originally from, when I was in India in 2005. So many of these Pakistani photos look like they could have been taken in Kutch. I went to a home that looked like this one: http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=29532 I was...horrified...to be there. The poverty there was simply incomprehensible. It's beyond anything I could have ever imagined. And photos or videos simply don't convey the magnitude of it.

Let me also say that I went there as a woman of privilege. My husband's family is quite well-to-do, especially by Kutchi standards. I didn't stay in places like that. I had people to cook for me. And drive me around. *sigh* When I came back to the U.S., I couldn't even talk about it. It has definitely changed my outlook on life. I used to think I grew up poor, and by American standards, I did. But my God. I don't feel that way any more.

I hope we can look beyond who the loan is to and just recognize that these people are trying to better their lives. Let's not forget that Asasah was founded by a woman. This is directly from the MFI info on Kiva: [Asasah] believes that female empowerment is a powerful catalyst for positive social change. Hence, for this reason 100% of Asasah's clients are women. Asasah's methodology provides women with flexibility to invest in their business or their family business. While safeguarding support of the entire family, Asasah makes the woman the primary point of contact for delivery of financial services, which elevates her position in the household and community."

Nicole

P.S.: Sorry that was so long.

[Odette]

Very eloquently said, Nicole.  Also, very interesting to hear from someone who has been there.  The more information we have in understanding the borrower, the better.

Having grown up in poverty, by Canadian standards, I never really understood what being poor was until I travelled to developing countries.  We have opportunities, especially as women, to change our circumstances and living conditions that are sorely lacking in countries such as Pakistan, Tajikistan, etc. 

[KivanSteven]

Great post Nicole...its always great to hear from someone who has better connections to or more of a first hand account of the ways of the world in a particular place...dont worry about it being long, because had you restricted yourself, half of what you said wouldnve been.

I have also started recently seeing a shift in direction with some of the Asasah loans, about a week back...some going directly to the women.

[miGIRLS]

Nicole,

I really enjoyed reading your thoughts, and like to hear more from people with first-hand experience in a particular country. It is so easy to misunderstand the dynamics of another culture, and the reality of their living conditions if we have not been there.

Karen

[NRF]

The beauty of Kiva is that we decide where to direct our money.  Tomcat examined information about a borrower, was not happy with that proposal so moved to another.  Tomcat is entitled to act according to personal principles and happily, Kiva allows choice that donors elsewhere typically lack.

However, I believe that Kiva lenders should not expect to export North American social values holus-bolus to the third world.  Empowerment of women living in poverty is a valid objective.  Then again, empowerment of men - or children - living in poverty is valid too.  We should focus on the basic needs of poverty-stricken people and be somewhat tolerant about social conditions to which we object.  People will not focus on reordering their society if they cannot provide their families with food, shelter and other necessities.

[Tomcat]

I am not interested in exporting North American social values to other countries. I am, however, interested in getting accurate information from Kiva on the loans that are posted. So when I see a photo of a man standing next to his taxi, but the loan is categorized as being for a female, it looks obvious to me that someone is taking advantage of the fact that loans to women traditionally get funded more quickly than do loans to men.

I will continue to scrutinize the information presented on the loans available and will stay away from those that obviously have wrong or deceptive statements. If that's social engineering, then I'm guilty.

[KivanSteven]

Hey NRF and welcome to KivaFriends.  A very good first post you make.  The focus of most micro-lending is female orientated and the objective of a great many of MFIs is the empowerment of women, which according to the experts, most benefits the family when it comes to our primary concerns for them such as having enough food, maintaining a suitable shelter, and affording things like education and health care for their children.  

I think some people also make it a priority to loan to women because apparently the likelihood of the loan being successfully repaid is greater for a woman and the loan funds are more likely to go further and be used for the most pressing needs of the family as a whole.  But I basically agree with you.  Someone who is poor is not likely to worry about the environment, or endangered species, or pollution if they are having a hard time merely providing food for their family.  Thankfully for the entrepreneur's sake, there have never been any loans on Kiva that went unfunded and that trend will continue for quite a long while.

Here is a thread that discusses loans for bush meat sellers, which again tests the differences in our Western cultural and social values.  I thought you might find it interesting.

http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,1279.0.html

[charity]

It is very interesting and sobering to read Nicole and Natasha's posts earlier in this thread. 

I saw a couple more group loans to women from Pakistan today where most of the group members are actually borrowing for themselves, or in one case, a daughter!   Both of these loans still need funding:

http://www.Kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=38509
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=38506

[Natasha]

Thankyou Charity for posting the loans.

Of course I couldn't resist...

Thanks again,
Natasha

[wannado]

In the past, on Asasah loans to groups of women, I could usually tell when a loan was intended for the wife or the husband.  For instance, a loan might say that woman A wants to buy a goat, woman B wants to buy thread for her embroidery business, woman C wants to buy lumber for their construction business, and woman D wants to improve their boutique.  I would interpret this to mean that women A and B are getting the loans for themselves, but the loans to women C and D are probably going to their husbands (because of the pronoun "their" instead of "she" or "her").

Lately, the Asasah loans pretty consistently refer to everything as belonging to the woman.  Her rickshaw, her wood business, her gas cylinder business, her car, her lumberyard, her blacksmith shop....   It's possible some of these business are run by women, but not all of them in every loan. 

Maybe Asasah has caught onto the idea that many lenders prefer to lend to women instead of men, but I think this tendency to shade the loan description is unfortunate, and also misleading.  For the past several months I've been selectively looking for Pakistan loans where I think at least half the borrowers are women and funding those, but now I'm reluctant to do that because I don't feel I can trust the loan writeup.

I'm wondering if anyone else shares my concern, and whether this is something worth contacting Kiva about.

Marsha