Mortgage the House! Sell the Kids! There's a Loan Up Now You Won't Want to Miss.

[Guest]

.

[mejane]

"Be kinder than necessary. Everyone is fighting some kind of battle."  Unknown

Now back to my real life...................

[CherylS]

I posted the section in green last June. I guess not much has changed:



I put quite a few loans on the basket team today, and not one was a result of a drop. I just like the team and the spirit of the people on it.

The cockfighting issue was divisive enough. Now, by the implications in this thread, I have discovered I am "slimy", "selfish", and "greedy".  Even the perjorative term "basket hoarder" seems deliberately tossed around to hurt and insult...

A week ago, I was ready to leave Kiva, and Kivafriends because of all the contentiousness. I deleted 98% of my posts here and had moved on in my head. But I'm back and not going to be driven off by wild conspiracy theories and bullies and nonsense.

While there is no evidence that anyone ever got turned off of Kiva because of being shut out of a loan, I can offer personal experience that team lending and basket sharing can lead to lots more lending, which means more money for entrepreneurs, which I thought was the point. One year ago, I had 23 loans after 9 months on Kiva. Largely as a result of the fellowship of KivaFriends (something that is in short supply these days, alas), I now have nearly 600. Lots of those are because someone pointed out a loan and invited me to come in on it with them. In fact, in early days, many of my loans came from Fred urging us all to join in on a loan to fund someone who was being overlooked. Eagerly, I jumped and found it to be fun.

In recent months, I discovered the basket team, and have shared loans with them to celebrate certain occasions and passions. None of the basket drops were an attempt to deliberately shut someone out, or a conscious "us" versus "them" scenario. Most of us stick to Mona's guidelines:
    * never take all of a loan, and
    * don't keep it too long.

But congratulations, all of you self-contained islands who disdain teams and sharing. That's fine for you, but please, let me make my own choice. (As Kay so wisely said, 'live and let live'). I live in a small, conservative, rural town. It's pretty lonely, having an interest in the world, with no one to talk it over with. If I want to feel less lonely in my lending, I'm going to continue to do it with no more apologies.


End of previous post.

That was the week I cried my eyes out over the smallness and meanness from people I thought of as friends. From people I had been inspired by.

And once again, we’re back at this same controversy. Why? What evidence does anyone have that people have been driven away because they couldn't get on a loan? It's both dangerous and disingenuous to suggest so.

How about the people who left last summer after they saw us "Still scratching each others' eyes out, eh?" Dangerous, this acrimony. Disingenuous to plead that this is all for the sake of peace and harmony.

I notice that Howard (okay, I'll name names even if he chooses not to) was on four of the loans to Sri Lanka. Did he ever worry that he was keeping others from adding another country to their portfolio? Was it selfish that on one of the loans, there were all three of his family accounts?

No.

It’s NOT selfish; that's just how it works on Kiva. There’s a feeding frenzy, and we all dive in. You get on some loans, you lose a shot at others. So why is keeping others from getting on a loan as long as you take the loan for yourself considered fine, while helping your friends get on a loan – or taking a handoff on a loan - is selfish? Why are we so hypocritical? Why so hypercritical?

For me, giving is a selfish event. I give, and I feel good about it. I help my friends, and I feel good about it.  So I've got no problem with basket lending nor with people getting on multiple loans to a new country if they so desire. Name one person who left Kiva because they were shut out of Sri Lanka?  What do we value – portfolios or people? I have tried to believe the protestations that “it’s not about me, I swear”, even though I struggle to find any other credible motivation apart from sour grapes.

I'm on the basket team. I average no more than two basket drops per month. Were it thirty or a hundred, so what?  What’s the point of this sniping?

Today, I dropped into chat because I saw two friends in there. Once upon a time, we could hang out and talk and laugh in a chat room without people attributing nefarious motives to us.  Today, I kept fretting: someone will be checking up on us to see what we are dropping (nothing). This site of “friends” has been spoiled for me.

Like the last time this happened, I've deleted (nearly) all of the posts I've made on KF. I've deleted the thank you for helping my class on DonorsChoose (the post in which I marveled at the generous, caring kindred spirits here), and I've deleted the pictures I posted of favorite loans and great smiles. This place no longer makes me smile. With my posts gone, I’m ready to be invisible for another while. But please continue with your eye-gauging. I’m sure this will lead to a more amicable community.

[Jan & John]

Ouch, Kay, be careful! 
and Cheryl, if you delete all the good posts... the new viewers will find nothing but this negativity...
it used to be such fun here.
Would everyone please go take a happy pill...
    and come back smiling with the grin the LLL team is using right now...
-jan-

[Diane R]

Mona, stepping back from suggesting loans?  Cheryl, deleting her wonderful posts as she heads into seclusion?  Jane dropping in at long last, just long enough to remind us to be kinder than necessary?

What has been wrought here, people?  Is this really the way people want things to be?

I surely hope not.  And I surely hope this topic turns into something people are willing to leave well enough alone, once and for all, now that further damage has been done.  We don't change each other's minds, and we just end up hurting each other worse when someone dredges it up each time.  Live and let live, and give it a rest, for pity's sake.


Oh hey guess what, I'm not on a single Sri Lankan loan, I was traveling when they appeared.  I'm sure there will be more, and I'll look for one next month.  That's just how things work around here, c'est la vie.

Life goes on, loans get funded, and KivaFriends ebbs and flows.  I'm sorry to see this current negative wave washing over us, but I will hope and believe we will once again hold our collective breath long enough to pop above the wave and catch the clear air again.  Come back, Mona and Cheryl and Jane and everyone else who was driven away the last time this topic got pulled out and kicked around.  It doesn't have to be like this, it really doesn't....  I think the key is to make it what we want it to be, rather than have it become by default something that rips us apart.  Come back, everyone: let's start again.

--Diane.

[howard]

Many good points made here, and I see that I, though not I alone, have been at fault, in making too much of other people's approaches which I personally disagree. A very minor point, but I have removed Sri Lanka from my autolend (the only reason I had so many loans for that country). It is inappropriate for a new country with very small loans, but I had not thought of this when I engaged it.

Howard

EDIT - mis-spelling!

[Henry]

You all wanted this loan!  Nah NaH!! NAH!!!!
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=15499

[Sengbe Pieh]

Henry,

All I will say is that this is proof positive that you "are completely blatant and shameless" and that you are someone who needs to "change their selfish attitude".

I hope you will go sit in the corner (again) or, at the very least, make an act of contrition & say 10 our fathers & 10 hail marys so you can be absolved of your sin(s).

P.S. Henry, is that loan real or something you just made up/pieced together on the computer?

[Wood Fairy Glenda]

I remember the loan, Geoff.  It was a Kiva staff member.  They were testing something and it was picked up by Henry.  Of course, Henry being Henry, he grabbed it and tried to lend,   only to find it wasn't legitimate.

[YowieFreak]

It's interesting that, had it not been refunded, Henry would still not have been entitled to his $25 back yet!  It's not due to be paid "From Field Partner to Lenders" until April 2010.

(Something makes me think that that's a bug with refunded loans.)

[cjp1973]

Kids, Toys, Books.....that is all I have to say about that.
Mureed


Mureed is a 30 year-old married man who lives in Gaza. He supports his wife and five young children. Since 2006, he has owned a bookstore where he also sell kids' supplies. He needs a loan of $2000 to buy more books and toys to display in his bookstore. Mureed is a successful and motivated man who is aiming to develop his business, and he is grateful for all the help he can get.

Artist in Bolivia
Juan Pinto


Juan lives in his parents’ house in the Belén area of the city of La Paz. Since he was a little boy he has devoted himself to painting works of art. He currently paints pictures and sells them in a commercial zone. He also makes, with help from his father, posters for movie theaters.

The loan he is requesting is to buy material (paints, canvasses, and others) to continue with this activity because it is his only source of income.