Kiva paypal problems

[Guest]

.

[AccountAbility]

Wow!  For me that is a major change. 

While I may decide differently in the future, my current conclusion is this requirement is a deal-breaker, because I am unwilling to open a PayPal account.

Dan

[Diane R]

Gerard replied on the KF Liaison call thread that this reply was incorrect:

Hi Folks,

Rachelle's response isn't accurate. You don't need a PayPal account to lend. There hasn't been any change here. You can still use credit cards, etc. I'll check with Rachelle to see where the breakdown in communication happened. Can the person who received this response please PM me the rest of the email chain for context?

Thanks,
Gerard

--Diane.

[Jan & John]

I had lots of help and advice from KivaFriends with this one.

My issue with Paypal came about because I did have a PayPal account but had registered my Mastercard number with them and when I reached what they termed my sending limit, PayPal wanted to verify me by having me send them bank account information.

This part is not strictly necessary because...

Everyone can still use a credit card.  When you are asked to log in with Paypal, you just have click on 'continue' and move on to fill in the credit card form each time.   

People are possibly are missing the bottom left corner where it says "Don't have a PayPal account?"
I know I was 

jan - trying the screenshot thingie again

[Gryzio]

   What's really going on? 
I will talk and then ask my question. 
Years ago I did some business with eBlay and used a verified PayPal for buying and selling. I really had no trouble, unless I missed something that never affected me. 
I remember back then there was a Phishing Scam  I would get an e-mail (which I never opened) and in the subject line it say some Blah Blah Phish talk. 
I just report it to PayPal and forget it. But, I never was scammed.    I stop here with talk.


My question;
Is there something I missing why I should be afraid of having a PayPal account? 
The bank account I use for PayPal never have much money for someone to steal?
I just curious if there a reason I need to be made more aware of ?

[wthepoo]

Gryzio,

  What's really going on? 

I think basically two things:

(1) some lenders don't want to be forced to do something, i.e. open a Paypal account, just to lend on Kiva, without necessarily "being afraid" of Paypal,

(2) some lenders are indeed afraid of supplying Paypal with their personal info and bank data because there have been several horror stories about Paypal (see e.g. http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,2136.0.html).

I have a Paypal account and have been using it without a problem for several years. But then, I am not particularly reluctant to supply people with my account information, as these are basically public knowledge, anyway, and as their knowledge doesn't really authorize people to access my account. Furthermore, all the horror stories I know have something to do with selling things through ebay/paypal - something I have never done so far and am not likely to be doing in the foreseeable future.

So IMHO you should not be afraid of having a Paypal account.

Best wishes,
Wolfgang.

[Gryzio]

So IMHO you should not be afraid of having a Paypal account.

Best wishes,
Wolfgang.

Thanks;
I knew when I had the eBlay it did seem synonymous? with the Phishing I received. But, that was easy for me to discern and after I sold everything I closed both accounts.

I not the best in knowing everything and sometimes I wonder if I missing something I should be aware of, but, I feeling much better now! 

[AccountAbility]

I appreciate Gerard's quick response to nip this in the bud.  If I understand him correctly, Kiva's deal with PayPal remains unchanged.  That is great and since I raised some of the fuss, I will go out of my way to put the fuss to rest.

And thanks, Diane, for being a liaison for things just like this.  

Dan

[AccountAbility]

Since I weighed in on the most recent issue regarding [erroneously] being forced to set up a PayPal account in order to fund Kiva, I thought I should explain myself.  I have three cautions that currently keep me from setting up a PayPal account.

1. At least in the US, an established bank account (to which PayPal must be linked) does not provide protection for amounts in excess of the current balance.  All bank accounts clearly hold you liable for all presentments to the account unless you can demonstrate that they are fraudulent.  In virtually every case, a reason such as you told that person not to cash that check yet, or you are having a dispute with that payee will not relieve you of the liability to cover the overdraft.  Since PayPal makes you agree ahead of time that they can debit your bank account, you have little recourse with the bank.  So keeping a small balance does not give any real protection.

2. Credit Cards come under consumer protection laws and have specific dispute resolution processes.  A disputed charge must be removed from your account while documentation is obtained from the card holder and the entity which placed the charge.  So there is time to resolve the issue and you have advance notice of the outcome.  PayPal to the best of my knowledge is not bound by such credit card rules.

3. PayPal has been known to act precipitously.  Perhaps they have acted with the best intentions, but those aren't much good if your linked bank account is suddenly charging you overdraft fees and sending demand letters to make the account whole.  I suspect these are isolated cases, so that the vast majority of users have smooth dealings with PayPal.  Nevertheless, it is not an easy task to dispute a PayPal action which they think is right.  And internet commerce is still somewhat of the wild wild west when it comes to sorting out which laws and which jurisdictions apply to disputes.  Often it comes down to "possession is nine tenths of the law."

So at least for the time being, I choose to be cautious.  My caution probably keeps me from a number of benefits which PayPal already delivers.  I wouldn't want anyone to think I was trying to persuade them to avoid PayPal--each one makes his or her own judgments about risks.  And I have no doubt that things will get better over time, so I intend to revisit this decision from time to time.

Dan

P.S.  Other countries clearly have differing laws and regulations, so I cannot speak to those.

[wthepoo]

Thanks, Dan, for sharing this - I sure learnt a lot about US law/banking practice and can understand even better, now, why you and other lenders might be reluctant to open a Paypal account and even more so to link it to a bank account (something that is not even necessary with Paypal Germany, I believe - but I might be wrong). I always understood why lenders don't want to share their private information, and I knew about certain cases that happened to eBay/Paypal-sellers - your concerns go beyond that, though, and sound very reasonable.

Here, indeed, laws and regulations are different - as are, obviously, Paypal's status (Paypal Europe is a credit institution/bank, bound by most if not all European/Luxembourgian rules applying to banks) and ToU.

Best wishes,
Wolfgang.

[Dottie b]

Dan, I've never had to link my PayPal account to a bank account, just my credit card. They keep inviting me to "step up," but I never do - and never will. I don't make very large purchases through PayPal, though.

Dottie B