Censorship at the KivaFriends Forum

[Guest]

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[waywardcats]

I can’t say that I’m particularly sorry about the recent vaporization of a notorious thread and of some of the troubling communications that were burning some of the pages within it.

I am, nonetheless, writing to invite a discussion, if anyone might be interested in pursuing, an exploration into a formalized and I’m hoping relatively democratic mechanism for determining what, “legitimately”, one or more of the moderators ought characterize as just so undesirable as to be worthy of his or her maybe/maybe not unilateral wave of the vaporizing wand.

I, personally, have had someone here suggest that something I’d done or written might be grounds for banishment from some  (this?) Forum or another, and I will tell you that I felt as though I’d been essentially threatened for something that didn’t warrant that kind of communication at all, and, at the time, I felt really troubled by it.

If I am the only one, here, who feels a bit concerned about the possible parameters of a censoring inclination, please just leave this post unresponded to.   Note, if you would, that I am not particularly directing this at the recent obliteration of the thread.   It merely provided the impetus for my opening up a subject I’ve long been thinking about.

Thank you Jill for starting this discussion.  I think it is well timed and your post is very well phrased.

I would like to go on record as one who disagrees with deleting whole threads.  I agree that we all need to understand and abide by rules, and I see absolutely no reason why discussions should not remain civil on this forum.  I also feel that banning individuals is not a good idea.  All Kiva lenders should be welcome here.

I think Scott has raised an excellent point earlier in this thread.  When he posted something that the moderators were concerned about, he was approached and an action was agreed to and the post was edited.  This I think could have been a method that might have worked with the thread today.

KivaFriends are, as I think we all know, passionate and caring people.  Because we care so much about the Kiva philosophy and the work it does, when we do disagree on something tempers can easily flare.  When such a thing happens, would it be appropriate for a moderator to temporarily lock a post or thread until the party(ies) involved can be contacted and a course of action agreed upon?  I make the suggestion not knowing if it is technically feasible.  Everyone's thoughts on this are welcome.

Another technique I have seen used effectively in other internet places is disemvoweling of comments which are particularly rude or nasty.  I have never seen anything approaching the level of nastiness here that I have seen when this technique used.  But I think if censorship is going to be practiced here at all, this would be a more appropriate level. 

-Kerry-

[abc]

I agree with the notion that this can be mostly self-regulated and,
failing that, with a light, dare I say moderate, touch by the moderator.
While I was taken aback by the low level of discourse (my, ain't I
hi-falutin'), I am more like appalled by the elimination of the
entire thread. Well, I'll save "appalled" for things in Real Life that
matter more, but more like concerned and confused.

I agree with the notion of setting behavioral parameters up
front: Be nice. Don't get personal. Don't take it personal.
Remember the whole world is reading this. Be nice.
And then I would suggest that the moderators maintain
a minimal level of intervention/involvement as needed.

I feel like the whole class was yanked off the bus, left
stranded at the rest stop parking lot, and now we're missing
the field trip just because two kids in the back were caught
passing notes to each other. Now we're all going to have to call
our parents to come pick us up. Jeesh. Talk about tough love.

[Henry]

it sounds so easy doesn't it?

ok, regarding Dagfinns post about the Brush Off - my bad -   here was his PM to me:

Hi Henry, I suggest that in the interest of the transparency that have been the hallmark of Kiva so far I would like to see what topic that you banned from this site, I do not need someone else to think for me  - thank you

Regards, Dagfinn A.

seeing the 'winking' smiley and thinking I knew Dagfinn in a 'henry' humorous way - my response was:

good news...KIVAFriends isn't KIVA

i hope your message was in jest..  The topic of that thread is history.

apparently I didn't and he doesn't know me either - after a couple of more PM's we have cleared up anthing Lost in Translation and I hope appreciates there never was an "Intent" to brush him off.


this interaction confirms my thoughts that if I am to continue to moderate for Joe, I will do so under another user ID - such as "moderator", which should allow me to keep my personality seperate (as it can be) from the role as moderator.

[Dagfinn]

I feel so much better when it is out in the open Henry - tusen takk / thank you. . .

Lfe is so much simpler and nicer that way, my appreciations.


Kindly, Dagfinn A.

[michael]

A moderator should moderate, not censor.  As such, removing material should be a last resort if a site is intended for a free exchange of ideas.  Last resorts, to me, should only be invoked in the case of libel, hate speech, SEVERE personal attacks, blatant and repeated misstatements or misrepresentations, advertising or links to inappropriate material, and repeated behavior that is not consistent with the purpose of Kivafriends.  (Note I did not say of Kiva.  I believe constructive criticism of Kiva and its MFIs is very definitely consistent with the purpose of KF.)  Such material should be dealt with, and the poster reprimanded or banned.

But if an individual is just generally annoying and disagreeable, the community can opt not to feed such a troll by not engaging him or her in discussion.  Or it can collectively try to reeducate and persuade.  Or the site could introduce available BB coding that allows each member to "ignore" all posts by a given individual at THE MEMBER'S discretion.

But I have a real problem with nuking an entire thread because people are strident in their opinions, even of each other.  Was someone in the "Lost Thread" completely out of line, obtuse, rude?  Perhaps.  Probably.  Is it the first time?  Arguably not.  But I'd rather read such posts and form my own judgements about whether a poster here is worth listening to or associating with rather than having a moderator "protect me" from the postings.  (And I continue in my assertion that the main audience of this site is US, not the Kiva world at large.  See my previous rants and pontifications, searchable under "pompous drivel.")

If a thread is getting nasty, LOCK IT.  Moderate the site by cautioning the offender(s) that future idiocy will not be tolerated and will be considered grounds for temporary or permanent time out (see my first paragraph.)  But don't become editor in chief unless it is absolutely required.



There.  I have probably pushed the limits of acceptable use.  Again.  Mea culpa.

[Sengbe Pieh]

The crowd 'ROARS" with approval!!!!!!   

[Henry]

There is a little more blood left, someone throw some more rocks!  quick - i'm ready to go! 

so I made a mistake?  I was just doing my best. 

[Sengbe Pieh]

Henry,

We still "love" ya. Just a teensy weensy bit less!!!!!   

Remember my name??

               

bikeme   

                                                                                                                                                       

    When Sunny gets blue, her eyes get gray and cloudy
        Then the rain begins to fall
        Pitter-patter, pitter-patter, love is gone so what can matter?
        No sweet lovin' man comes to call

        When Sunny gets blue, she breathes a sigh of sadness
        Like the wind that stirs the trees
        Wind that sets the leaves to swayin'
        Like some violins are playin'
        Weird and haunting melodies

        People used to love to hear her laugh, see her smile
        That's how she got her name
        Since that sad affair she's lost her smile,
        Changed her style
        Somehow she's not the same

        But memories will fade and pretty dreams will rise up
        Where her other dreams fell through
        Hurry, new love, hurry here
        To kiss away each lonely tear
        And hold her near when Sunny gets blue

        Hurry, new love, hurry here
        To kiss away each lonely tear
        And hold her near when Sunny gets blue

The late, great Nat King Cole

[abc]

Oh that's right. I forgot there for a minute.
You aren't perfect, Henry.
Oh wait..... does that mean I'm not either?
Shoot.
Hands up all you other perfect ones -- I'm ready to hand over the world to you. I'm tired
of doing it all myself.

I'm sure you did what you *thought* was best Henry, but I hope you will
take into consideration what is said here, when (sadly, not "if") the
situation arises again. We don't all need whuppin' and sent to bed without
supper -- just stand the misbehavers in a corner and give 'em a time out.

Thanks for doing what I'm sure is generally a thankless job.

[PEI Rick]

Hey, Henry, just for that we're sending you to Brazil where you'll be forced to tread water in the Amazon for 30 minutes ... sans bathing suit!  Your plane leaves before sun down!