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Poll
Question: Round 2 - Groups – vote for your favourite for the 2009 calendar  (Voting closed: August 17, 2008, 11:02:35 AM)
Trabajando Unidos Group - 15 (16%)
Twiga Group - 21 (22.3%)
Abeli's Juhudi Group - 1 (1.1%)
Untouchables (INTOCABLES) Group - 8 (8.5%)
Ismanie Etienne's Group - 1 (1.1%)
Martin Trust Group - 11 (11.7%)
Estrellas del Cielo Group - 6 (6.4%)
Unity and Strength Group - 2 (2.1%)
San Cayetano Group - 1 (1.1%)
Jamonoy tey de Kacoumpa Group - 13 (13.8%)
Subgroup G of Salasala - 15 (16%)
Total Voters: 36

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Author Topic: Round 2 - Groups – vote for your favourite for the 2009 calendar  (Read 6434 times)
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KivanSteven
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« Reply To This #10 on: August 12, 2008, 05:47:59 PM »

.

I'd also like to see, maybe on the back of the calendar, that each loan is featured on a web page, and how to find them.
Then someone who has a calendar and curiosity can pull up a particular web page and see these real people, their details and their lenders.

Alph

Great idea Alph (I dont know you all that well so hope its not an oddball thing that Im referring to you by that name if its reserved for better known acquaintances and friends)...we did that last year and Im sure we will continue that trend.  I think it was Christopher that set up a page on KF that was provided on the calendar for finding further information about the entrepreneurs...I think its imperative that this be included, otherwise no one using the calendar could dive deeper into the lives and experiences of these entrepreneurs without a great deal of difficulty.  If they cant do that then whats the point?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 05:49:28 PM by Ahimsa Steve » Logged

I find not direction in the readings of those with whom my eccentricities are similar, but rather validation.

My only solace is that I find a peaceful place where I might be resigned to my depriving loneliness.
AccountAbility
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« Reply To This #11 on: August 12, 2008, 06:01:04 PM »

I have similar feelings about group loans as many have already expressed. It makes it virtually impossible to show the entrepreneurs connected to their activities.  And the pictures are not particularly striking.

However, group loans are now a huge piece of Kiva lending so I figure we might as well find the best way to deal with them.  After reading the story of Trabajando Unidos Group I concluded that this was the best story to introduce group loans to the uninitiated. 
1) Each borrower gets a voice to say what they are doing and what they will use the loan proceeds for.
2) They explain their connection to each other.
3) The photo itself is colorful and attractive even from a distance (say across the room)

Dan
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KivanSteven
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« Reply To This #12 on: August 12, 2008, 06:30:23 PM »

Yeah its not so bad as I first thought...I usually am not too fond of the behind the counter pics, but Im more accepting of it now because of the good points made about it.
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I find not direction in the readings of those with whom my eccentricities are similar, but rather validation.

My only solace is that I find a peaceful place where I might be resigned to my depriving loneliness.
Christopher
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« Reply To This #13 on: August 13, 2008, 04:08:37 AM »

At the moment Kiva 'All Kiva Partners' reports 77.26% Loans to Women Entrepreneurs.  I don't know the proportion that are groups and how this affects the figure just quoted.  All I can say is that group loans are a significant proportion of the loans - at the moment with 660 loans fundraising right now 204 include the word group in their title (http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.run?_id=Vhz1kzqC3BGAFF0zYEsBXw&descriptionsearch=Group).

I think it would be remiss of us not to include a group loan or two where possible, as it would give a false impression of Kiva - something we diligently tried to avoid last year in ensuring the broadest range of countries (ie no duplicates), genders, business types.  We did have to squeeze in some male entrepreneurs last year - if it had been a straight up vote (from memory) none of them would have made it.  Though the calendar was still very well received and all of the pictures held their own.

Many of the points made about group loans this year, were made about male entrepreneurs last year.  I think we have more groups in this year than we had male entrepreneurs last year.

Including a group loan or two also provides us with an opportunity (as Wolfgang put so well) and that was in the back of my mind (but not in so many words) when I compiled this poll:
[snip] we could remain rather vague in the description of that particular group (focusing on location, number of members, possibly their relationship [members of a village bank, etc.]) and use the remaining space to highlight why group loans are such an important method in micro-finance and how they work (joint-liability).

Like others I too prefer pictures that show the entrepreneur in their work environment, so group loans are always low down on my list.  I prefer the work situation as that is the important aspect, thinking about it a little more in light of Wolfgang's wise words the important thing about groups is joint-liability so a good group picture with happy smiles and a sense of unity etc has just gone up in my estimation.  I doubt that more than 2 (or perhaps 3) of these loans will make it into the final calendar.

If I were voting I would sigh at the poor quality of the all male group (nil points), and hope that one or both of the mixed groups get a good number of votes, there are several all female groups that I think would be popular choices.  For balance I don't think we can just have all female groups representing the groups in the final calendar, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that the voting allows a mixed group in.

I think it was Christopher that set up a page on KF that was provided on the calendar for finding further information about the entrepreneurs...
It was Joe that set up a page as a jumping off point to the highlighted entrepreneurs: http://calendar.kivafriends.org/
Not sure how much traffic it got, but we posted the URL on the back of the calendar - an this year's draft has it as well.
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KivanSteven
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« Reply To This #14 on: August 13, 2008, 02:58:22 PM »

Im all for a group loan or two--Im still torn as to whether a less than mediocre picture is worth highlighting a fairly new aspect of Kiva.  Someone who wants the group loan pics in the calendar can try to convince me--Im on the fence.

When the voting was for three group loans, I was worried that 3 group loans were being mandated for the calendar....then when I saw the group loan pics I became really worried due to their quality...hence the reason I made the posts about being uncertain of the group idea.  The calendar can absorb one average photo, but beyond that, especially anything more than 2, I think the quality of the overall calendar begins to suffer the effects.

Wolfgang did share a bit of wisdom with us involving his idea of explaining the group loan concept in a write up.  Since I highly doubt it can be done in the alotted space, we might need 2 or 3 group loans each offering explanation of a small aspect of a group loan, in order to fully convey the group loan concept to potential Kiva members.  If that is the case then i would have to express my disapproval of using the calendar to inform others about group loans.  But if its going to happen or has to happen then lets make the most of it...

...we all so far seem to think the group loan pics are not so good to put it nicely--there has to be some better group loan pics out there.  Since we all dislike the current ones, it might be easy for us to agree to find some better group loan photo or photos even after voting has completed.  I didnt participate much in finding calendar photos but does anyone who was really in to that think there are some great group photos hiding somewhere?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 03:09:00 PM by Ahimsa Steve » Logged

I find not direction in the readings of those with whom my eccentricities are similar, but rather validation.

My only solace is that I find a peaceful place where I might be resigned to my depriving loneliness.
Christopher
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« Reply To This #15 on: August 13, 2008, 04:28:57 PM »

I did spend quite some time looking for more group loan photos, and came up empty - probably due to the prejudices I listed earlier.  I fear we are out of time to go on the hunt again and then rerun this poll - though I am not sure it is necessary, some of them got good numbers of votes, and better than the men last year.  I know there are concerns and even boycotts, but having a sneak peek people are still happy to be voting in this poll.

I tried to set the number of votes to relate to the number of photos in each poll, and the spread of genders across all the polls - I also capped the number to 14.  Ideally the numbers worked better with allowing more votes, but I though it would be odd having 15 or 16 votes.
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KivanSteven
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« Reply To This #16 on: August 13, 2008, 04:56:21 PM »

Ok Christopher, thanks for the info...I was about to go photo searching myself--guess we have to work with what we have since they wont get any better.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 04:57:13 PM by Ahimsa Steve » Logged

I find not direction in the readings of those with whom my eccentricities are similar, but rather validation.

My only solace is that I find a peaceful place where I might be resigned to my depriving loneliness.
mejane
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« Reply To This #17 on: August 13, 2008, 04:56:42 PM »

Of the group pictures I ruled out these 3:
Abeli's Juhudi Group
Untouchables (INTOCABLES) Group
Estrellas del Cielo Group
only because the pictures are so very dark (not good lighting).  There is nothing wrong with the groups themselves.

My favorite is: Twiga Group......because of the good lighting in the picture (sun is out), the vibrant colors of the clothing, and the fact that so many of them are laughing.  They seem to be sharing a joke or some happy event.  I smile because they smile.

Since picking out pictures is one of my favorite things here, I will try to be on the hunt for good group loan pictures for the next calendar. 
Jane
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 05:00:57 PM by mejane » Logged

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KivanSteven
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« Reply To This #18 on: August 13, 2008, 05:06:25 PM »

Great Jane--we're learning what we need to do next time--as Kiva changes Im sure we will have some unprepared for surprises next year as well...but until then, Ill be on the lookout over the months for group photos as well.

Since it seems we will be using at least one of these--I want to take a second to lobby for the last pic of the bunch, Subgroup G.  The photo is bright and clear--no bland colored face of a building in the background.  There are some nice smiles and some stoic stares...great clothing, culture showing through, young and old--only no males.  At least 7 KF were in on this loan.
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I find not direction in the readings of those with whom my eccentricities are similar, but rather validation.

My only solace is that I find a peaceful place where I might be resigned to my depriving loneliness.
AccountAbility
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« Reply To This #19 on: August 15, 2008, 10:59:09 PM »

One of the problems I have with group loans for the calendar has to do strictly with the picture composition.  Many faces in a group just blur into the background as you move away from the picture. 

My calendar is on the wall of our office (the one I am looking at right now) and most of the viewers will be 6-8 feet away to start.  To me the picture needs to be clear and compelling enough for a closer look.  That is one important reason why I chose Trabajando Unidos Group.  I blew the picture up and it works well for my typical viewer.

Dan
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