promoting sustainable practices

[Guest]

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[Laurel]

While shopping for loan recipients I was struck by the need to assist with global efforts for sustainable practices. Organic, or more accurately non-GMO, sourced foods is a critical issue at stake. Alternative energy sources and hybrid transportation will keep needy folks from having their chances and their health ruined.  Is there a way we can begin to encourage such efforts?

[Marley]

Laurel, when I was looking at some of the businesses wanting loans, I too was concerned about their impacts. There are sellers of wood and charcoal, both likely to be environmentally damaging practices. I looked at some of the photos where cattle were desired and wondered about the arid landscapes and the impact of more grazing cattle. I've followed (and supported) the work of Heifer, International. Part of what they do in many areas is teach confining the stock and bringing cut forage to feed them in order to protect vulnerable landscapes. I sent an email to Kiva to say I had these concerns and wondered if they addressed sustainability issues. I got a nice reply saying that it was up to the lenders to decide what they felt comfortable supporting.
So, I guess this comes down to marketplace forces. The MFIs are looking for small busineses that they think make sense in the context of the needs of thier locale. And Kiva's lender pages are another marketplace of a sort. So long as enough individuals are willing to subsidize a loan, it's made.
I know this isn't quite the point you were making, but it's perhaps a paralell issue.

[AGullen]

One characteristic of growth is that as nations become richer, they are able to spend their money and resources in ways that are more environmentally sustainable. That means that for the moment being these poor individuals in developing nations just do what they can to prosper, and when they reach a certain point they begin investing in ways that are sustainable for growth. This is illustrated by the Kuznets Curve, which implies "that many environmental health indicators, such as water and air pollution, show the inverted U-shape: in the beginning of economic development, little weight is given to environmental concerns, raising pollution along with industrialization. After a threshold, when basic physical needs are met, interest in a clean environment rises, reversing the trend. Now society has the funds, as well as willingness to spend to reduce pollution" (Wikipedia.com, April 18, 2007).

So I would say that these non-environmentally sustainable endeavors are inevitable unless richer nations step in and mold behaviors. You could think of it like this: Since you are helping the economies of these poor countries (even in non-environmentally friendly ways) you are speeding up the process for them to become environmental do gooders. Its all in how you look at it

[Fred]

I've seen many loan requests from Africa, to fund the production of palm oil. Knowing it's not healthy, I wonder about the wisdom of supporting this. However, at this point they seem to really need this oil.

I have a friend at work who is from Accra, Ghana. He told me charcoal is used for cooking, because gas is so expensive. It's hard for me to believe, but if I understood him correctly, the majority of people in the capital city of Accra, use charcoal. However, he's hard to communicate with, since he doesn't spreak English very well.

[Pondering Pig]

People do what they gotta do to survive.  But with so many borrowers looking for a loan, I think we can choose businesses we are sympathetic with, and be sure the others will ultimately be funded too.  For me - and this is not about a sustainable practice - my sticking point was when I saw the photo of a nice lady in West Africa surrounded by stacks of Pepsi-Cola.  She wanted to expand her soft drink business. !  Help!  Not even home grown soft drinks, but Pepsi-Cola!  Support more obesity, diabetes and tooth rot in Africa!  I don't know - God bless her and her family and her entrepreneurial spirit, but I just couldn't go there.

[Ramón]

@Fred... I have some neighbors here in the affluent suburbs of Boston that used the wood pallet stoves all winter long, which (they argue) is cheaper than oil or gas heat.

In many rural areas in the developing world, charcoal is the fuel of choice for cooking. It probably adds less to global warming than our SUVs and it won't need a huge logging industry either.

And... we should look into Palm Oil as a replacement fuel for diesel or home heating oil! If it were only that cheap to produce...

[Pondering Pig]

According to the UN, "Africa's tiny share of man-made greenhouse gases, put at just 2-3 per cent of the estimated 6 mn metric tonnes emitted globally as of 1990, makes the continent one of the "cleanest" parts of the world."  So I guess Ramon is right - it takes a whole lot of charcoal fires to equal, for example,  the output of one American city's SUVs on one morning commute.

[Fred]

I've seen many loan requests from Africa, to fund the production of palm oil. Knowing it's not healthy, I wonder about the wisdom of supporting this. However, at this point they seem to really need this oil.

I have a friend at work who is from Accra, Ghana. He told me charcoal is used for cooking, because gas is so expensive. It's hard for me to believe, but if I understood him correctly, the majority of people in the capital city of Accra, use charcoal. However, he's hard to communicate with, since he doesn't spreak English very well.

@ramon & Pondering Pig

LOL about the Palm Oil!

I talked to my friend from Ghana today, and he told me only about 20% of the people in Accra use charcoal for cooking. The rest use propane. The 20% are the very poor, or people who are afraid of propane. However, the use of charcoal is very common in villages, as is the use of raw wood, cut from trees by people on their own land.

He also said Pepsi and Coke are very expensive and people don't drink them on a daily basis, at least not in Ghana. They both are considered a treat. Sometimes they are also served at weddings and other special occasions.

[Johan]

I am watching every TV documentary I can about environment and new technology/energy, so I have recently seen a couple of very interesting things:
India is the largest growing market for wind and solar energy right now.
Remote rural villages in south asia are installing factories that use fermented cow dung to convert into cheap gas that is then used in cooking stoves.
The mobile phones are spreading fast throughout third world countries, and the need for installing old-fashioned telephone lines is disappearing.
Simple home kits with a small solar panel and a small wind turbine can be distributed (with or without subsidies) and make families/villages self-sufficient with electric energy to recharge batteries for all appliances.

Our fast development of new technologies will hopefully help to make most people in the developing world skip past a couple of the stupid steps that were very dirty and un-friendly to the earth, (for instance the coal based industrialisation of western europe from 1850 up until now) and perhaps evolve much faster into a more environmentally safe life.
I hope that most Chinese and Indian families will not feel the need to buy 2-3 cars and SUV's that are run on fossil fuels.
Maybe we are able to create free collective transport networks, run entirely with free green electricity?
And I also hope the production of palm oil will not grow any further...

[abc]

Here's a loan that seems to fit this thread.



In Villanueva municipality, located in the city of Chinandega lives Santiago Álvarez. He works very hard to better his living conditions.

Santiago and his family have endured a lack of electricity in their home for a long time because they live in a very remote area. For this reason, Santiago bought a solar panel that allows them to have power in their home. Now Santiago has come to Ceprodel requesting a loan to pay for the solar panel and in this manner continue to make improvements in his home and support his family.


http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=54677

Mr. Santiago Alvarez Lindo of Chinandega, Nicaragua:

Check out the photo -- you can see the battery and the wires that must go to the solar panel.

[geekthegreek]

I think AGullen has it right, and this is why the Kyoto rules are relaxed (somewhat controversially, of course) for developing countries. It also becomes a form of economic imperialism. "Oh, sorry, we know we got rich off of raping the environment, but you're not allowed to...." I've read that trying to impose or encourage stringent domestic environmental policies in developing countries is one of the most strongly resented practices in the international arena. So yeah, I'm definitely for clean development, but I don't think it's really appropriate to judge the borrowers by these standards.
As for palm oil, soft drinks, etc. well, these are mostly health issues, not environmental ones, and the last thing Africa has is an obesity problem. I could think of better industries to support, but big American brands are very sexy overseas, especially in poorer regions. If an entrepreneur thinks they can make money selling Pepsi, they probably can. I reckon it's not for me to judge. 

[cpbailey]

Actually, soft drinks have a number of issues.  One is that regular soda uses corn syrup which further reduces the corn available for food.   World corn prices are set on yellow corn, as the U.S. mostly grows.  So our excessive use of corn for soft drinks and fuel causes white corn for tortillas in Mexico to go up.  I cannot reduce my personal use of biofuel, but I can cut out corn syrup in soda.

I don't know about African's in Africa, but African Americans tend to have a higer than average rate of diabetes and heart issues.  Sodas do not help this.  With medical care unaffordable or unavailable to many in Africa, I feel more comfortable with other loan types.  For a poor family, I would rather support nutritious foods than empty calorie sodas.  If a store carries soda as one of many products, it isn't a show stopper for me.  If a group loan has one person selling mostly sodas, I may go with it.  It just isn't something I prefer to support. 

It is said that the floods in the midwest will make this year's corn crop 8-10% lower than last year.  This can only put a bigger crimp in supply of corn, driving prices of food even higher.

Colette

[geekthegreek]

Actually, I may have been incorrect in assuming that obesity is not a problem in much of Africa. A brief search revealed an interesting article on the issue:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3969693.stm

I thought this was a particularly poignant comment:

"Traditionally seen as a sign of wealth, being fat now has another significance for people living here.

Aids has had the nickname "slim" in Africa for many years because it makes its victims literally waste away. As a result, people do not want to lose weight in case others think they are HIV-positive."

[abc]

Oh sorry. I found this old and pre-exisiting thread and thought it would be the
right place to put a loan for people who find this sort of thing interesting
and worth promoting.

Did not intend to turn into a philosophical discussion. We all have our own sets
of criteria, and I know this is of interest to many. If it does not float your solar-
powered sailboat, it makes me no never mind. As far as I can tell, the
solar panels are not powered by guinea pigs.


Ann
who promises that no guinea pigs were harmed in the writing of the post

[geekthegreek]

Ok, sorry if I'm violating some sort of KF etiquette guidelines by debating and discussing controversial or philosophical matters. I do find this topic very interesting.

[Diane R]

geekthegreek, I know of no such etiquette guideline.  As long as the conversation here is respectful and courteous (even if sometimes spirited), there should be no reason you couldn't continue discussing this!  Have at it, I'm sure you'll have some others joining you. 

--Diane.

[cpbailey]

here are some solar loans...maybe this will light up someone's day.

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=54669&_tpos=1&_tpg=1
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=54677&_tpos=2&_tpg=1

The solar system is used in remote areas to allow homes to have electricity for indoor lighting.  Lighting allows families to extend their time to work and study. 

Colette

[abc]

Another good suggestion, Colette. That other one got past me. Thanks.

And gentlemen, I did not in any way mean to discourage your discussion.
I'm glad to see this thread revived.


Ann
who has to remember to drop by Canadian Tire on the way to the ferry, to get a replacement solar panel for the one at camp that is cracked

[Environmental Care]

Hi Everyone!
I am so surprised to see everyone discussing this topic! I have been the Chair of the Kiva Team, Environmental Lender's Group since August. We have made about 24 loans, but currently only have about 16 members. It is my 2009 goal to make this group explode in size and environmental impact in 2009.
Here's the group's description: "Made of individual kiva lendors who are concerned about the environmental impacts of their loans. This is a forum to notify each other of 'environmental' loans that are needing funding. Recycling, solar, re-use, organic agriculture, etc. Won't you join us?" and the link to join is here:
http://www.kiva.org/community/viewTeam?team_id=231
Other types of loans that I have been recommending include healthcare and education related (both result in the slowing of the population growth rate which ties in with consumption resulting in environmental impact).
Please come check out our team - we'd love to have you!
- Melanie

[waywardcats]

Melanie,

  to Kiva Friends!!

I had not noticed your team, but will certainly come on board as those issues are very important to me.  We have a number of themed teams associated with Kiva Friends (I am captain of the KivaFriends-Disabled Persons team for example but there are also teams for single parentsand agriculture loans .  I hope you will stick around with us and keep your team visible here!

-Kerry-

[RichardF]

Hey, Melanie! 

Why don't you start a topic at the Lending Team board? 

[Lily]

  I joined too 

~Lily