Kiva Terms of Use

[Guest]

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[YowieFreak]

I just noticed that using the Kiva website (or at least browsing any loan page) requires the user to accept Google's privacy policy, and there is no option to say you don't accept it.

Is this (or should this) be mentioned within Kiva's own terms of use / privacy policy?

[AccountAbility]

I just went browsing through the website to see if I could replicate your Google privacy issue, but I can't get it anywhere.  I am using Firefox 4.01 and have always been very careful about what gets onto my computer including cookies.  (I did not try using the map function though.)

Is there any possibility that you somehow acquired Google Desktop on your computer?

Dan

[YowieFreak]

Ah, I hadn't realised that the display of maps on loan pages was optional.  (It is displaying the map that means you have accepted Google's terms.)

How do you disable it?

[iampaul]

Ah, I hadn't realised that the display of maps on loan pages was optional.  (It is displaying the map that means you have accepted Google's terms.)

Not on any browser I've used on my Macs, or on my iPad. Haven't been on with a Windows system recently to say about that side of the PC world.

Paul

[YowieFreak]

Not on any browser I've used on my Macs, or on my iPad. Haven't been on with a Windows system recently to say about that side of the PC world.

I'd paste an image of one of the maps here, highlighting the link to the ToU that I see in the bottom right-hand corner, but Google's ToU tells me that I am not permitted to do so.

[iampaul]

I'd paste an image of one of the maps here, highlighting the link to the ToU that I see in the bottom right-hand corner, but Google's ToU tells me that I am not permitted to do so.

Ah, now I see it - in faint gray lettering right in the corner of the map image it says Terms of Use and links to this:
http://www.google.com/intl/en-US_US/help/terms_maps.html

Aside from the light colored text, and my eyesight not being what it once was, that text and link was appearing on the map directly over the black text label for the nation of South Africa making it more difficult for me to distinguish. I didn't see it until I used the hand tool to move the map a little bit. I guess probably I should have agreed to those terms of use before using that hand tool too?

As to your statement that

I just noticed that using the Kiva website (or at least browsing any loan page) requires the user to accept Google's privacy policy, and there is no option to say you don't accept it.

Is this (or should this) be mentioned within Kiva's own terms of use / privacy policy?

that link starts out,

By ... accessing or using the Google Maps service (together, the "Products" or "Services"), or accessing or using any of the content available within the Products, you agree to be bound by the following

I think you might have a point, but I'm no expert on such matters. I suppose, though, that you could browse Kiva's loan pages with your eyes closed...

Paul

[JohnAtKiva]

I just noticed that using the Kiva website (or at least browsing any loan page) requires the user to accept Google's privacy policy, and there is no option to say you don't accept it.

Is this (or should this) be mentioned within Kiva's own terms of use / privacy policy?

I will mention this to the appropriate people.  I believe a rework of the privacy policy is in place, and so it'll be good to add it to the list of issues to consider.

[AccountAbility]

And to bring this issue back to the Terms of Use, the first paragraph of the ToU clearly says that Kiva's Privacy Policy is part of what a lender accepts as "terms and conditions".  

".... you must read all of the terms and conditions in, and linked to, this Agreement (including the Privacy Policy)."

It would probably be helpful if there are any other "terms and conditions" that are "linked to" the ToU, that they were explicitly listed like the Privacy Policy.  (I don't know if there are any, but that in itself is a good reason to list them.)

Dan

[AccountAbility]

To keep this thread alive, with its outstanding unresolved issues with Kiva's Terms of Use, I note that the Terms of Use have been changed as of yesterday 9/09/11.  Much of the changes are cleaning up language issues with additions generally positive to clarify how the terms will be applied to newer situations.

Regretfully, virtually all the problematic issues discussed on this thread remain, with one issue seemingly expanded.  The previous T of U already had lenders granting to Kiva a universal license for all "content" which they posted to the website--without limitation to how Kiva could use this license.  This provision has been modified to give Kiva even greater license.  One example is that I notice a number of teams and lenders have posted logos of a commercial nature--perhaps even trademarked- to the team or lender profiles.  It appears that once posted, Kiva has been granted a universal license for subsequent usage without limitation.

At the other end of this issue, all you lenders who have posted the Kiva trademarked logo on your own websites or blogs are apparently doing so in violation of Kiva's new T of U unless you have received written permission to do so.

Dan

[AccountAbility]

Kiva's Terms of Use have changed effective March 2, 2012.  (My once a month look see on the first missed out)

Three things jump out. 
1. There now is a "table of contents" and a related heading at the beginning of each section, which should help lenders navigate an ever growing and lengthy document.  They are even "hot linked" to bring you right to that particular section.

2. There is now a long section dealing with trial loans for new lenders where they can use other people's money to try out a loan.  The repayment proceeds of course go back to where the money came from.  This is limited to whatever funds are made available for this purpose.

3. The "Term; Termination" section at the end now has a new sentence where Kiva reserves the right to terminate any "feature" that it made available to lenders without restriction.  While this sounds fine for additional "features" that it adds from time to time, does this include "features" which lenders have totally relied upon from the beginning, such as getting loan repayments paid back to them (at some point)?  Unfortunately, this power lacks definition.

It also refers to a revised Privacy Policy which is incorporated by reference into the Terms of Use.

Still no "best efforts" provision or standards for Kiva. 

And there is still no clear provision for Kiva to change the ALLOCATION of questionable repayments away from the ratio of lenders monies participating in each loan (as is stated in the ToU).  Kiva understandably needs this power in the cases of failed MFI Field Partners or where data is totally absent, but this draconian measure needs limits and standards.

Dan