Bugs and New Repayment System - Q&A With Kiva CS

[Guest]

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[RichardF]

I just tried to read an RSS feed from the LEND page and here's an example of what I got back.

Code:

Kiva Loans http://www.kiva.org/ Kiva Business Feed Marquencitas Group : Guatemala http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=62828 <p> <a href="http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=62828"> <img src="http://www.kiva.org/image.php?type=thumbnail&id=196030" align="left" alt="photo" title="Marquencitas Group" border="1"/> </a> <b>$4,300 of $4,300 raised.<br/><br/></b> Started raising funds on Oct 8, 2008 <br/> <br/>

Are any RSS feeds working right now?
p.s. I only have this display problem in Chrome.  It works okay in IE7 and Firefox.

[AccountAbility]

Hi Dan - The due date is in fact that - the last day that a repayment can be accepted and, after that it's delinquent.

So for a payment that is set to be collected by the MFI on 1/11 the end of the grace period would be 2/15 (end of the month plus 15 days) and the due date would be 3/15 (the end of the grace period plus 30 days).
Thanks!
-Gerard

You guys must have the only financial system I have ever heard of where the due date is after the end of the grace period.  In terminology, it is always the other way around-- the due date comes first and then there is a grace period before it is delinquent( or is canceled, lapses etc. depending on the industry and instrument.)

Dan

[wind5001]

You guys must have the only financial system I have ever heard of where the due date is after the end of the grace period.  In terminology, it is always the other way around-- the due date comes first and then there is a grace period before it is delinquent( or is canceled, lapses etc. depending on the industry and instrument.)

Dan

I agree with Dan. The due date would be 1/11 on the MFI side. Grace period until 2/15 and then....well, I am lacking a word for the second grace period.

[mejane]

On an unrelated note, I continue to get "phantom" notices in my Some News for you, from team messages that are not on the team message board.  These come frequently enough that they push any notice of a journal right into cyberspace.  Since the space for the messages is limited, could there at least be a way to see previous messages that were there before being pushed down by these "phantoms".  (I have one right now from a Kiva friend if you need a specific example.)
Dan

Gerard, I too am having a problem with "phantom messages" appearing in the same place as Dan's.  I quit a very large team about 3 weeks ago and the messages from their team are still being displayed in my "some news for you."  It is crowding out messages from my smaller teams.  These messages "come and go" like "mirages in the dessert."  I waited hoping that time would fix this but it has not.  Could you please look into this problem?  I just now did send a message to "contact us" at Kiva but thought I would post this as I know it is a problem that others have brought up.

Thank you very much for the dedicated amount of time you have spent here explaining things to us.  It is very much appreciated!!  This Thanksgiving I will be giving thanks that I don't have your job!!   
  Jane

[JohnR]

Gerard,

Thanks for the answer to my question.  I think I've finally got it! 

And I got payment notices again this morning.  Onward and upward! 

[AccountAbility]

Gerard - Here's one for the PR types and wordsmiths.  The engineers need only tell you whether the data types are available for extraction.

Lenders have been used to the fictionalized play by play of "their borrowers."  Without judgment, Kiva essentially fabricated a loaning and repayment process and overlaid it on the actual happenings "on the ground."  This was similar to the 1930s-40s play by play announcers recreating away ballgames, having only the tickertape to find out what had happened and then broadcasting a verbal rendition that had the sound and feel as though the announcer was right there viewing it all.  But the public loved it and it was essentially accurate.

So too have Kiva lenders loved it and in fact many became "addicted" to it.  While the new system has been necessary, it also has caused the house of cards of the lender experience to at least be greatly shaken if not actually come tumbling down.

Kiva needs to quickly revise the wording on its emails, its announcements and even its standard loan descriptions.  If transparency is the goal, then lenders want to be transparently connected to "their" borrowers. 
 1. When a lender lends and receives an email it still says the loan was disbursed.  But the disbursal date is now listed on the loan page and often had already occurred.  So what is that email saying-- that the loan is now "booked" as a Kiva loan?  Whatever it signifies needs to be explained clearly.

2. When a notice of credit is given, presumably clustered around the 15th of following month, we get that it represents our piece of a loan that was repaid sometime last month (probably).  Lenders used to have the image of the borrower paying on a day and we got a notification that they paid.  And the notice told us the amount the borrower paid in addition to the date.  To keep the lender experience engaged, the amount the borrower paid and date (or at least the borrower's theoretical due date) should accompany that notice.

3. Lastly, lenders used to get a final notice that the borrower had fulfilled his or her obligation and the monies were available as credits.  With this notice the lender could rejoice in the completed loan with the borrower.  Surely there is a way for notifications of final repayments to be highlighted better than the mere notation that this tidbit of lender credit signifies 100% repayment (In fact if the lender has opted not to receive emails about credits there is only the silent movement in the portfolio from "Active" to "Paid Back".)  The lenders need either a separate notification, a separate section for final repayments or something more to celebrate this significant event.

All of the above are relatively small adjustments which I believe would go a long way toward counteracting the degradation of the lender experience brought about (by necessity) in the new system.

Dan

[abc]

Good points, Dan.
I hate to say it, but all this talk about some of the loans being disbursed
before the funds are raised on Kiva makes me wonder if I am really
lending money to that specific person or just to an MFI which uses
the story and photo to encourage me to lend general funds to them.
That's how low my thoughts have sunk lately. Please, someone,
talk me down on this one.

[wthepoo]

Good points, Dan.
I hate to say it, but all this talk about some of the loans being disbursed
before the funds are raised on Kiva makes me wonder if I am really
lending money to that specific person or just to an MFI which uses
the story and photo to encourage me to lend general funds to them.
That's how low my thoughts have sunk lately. Please, someone,
talk me down on this one.

Hm, Ann,

that is a difficult one.

I definitely can't tell you that your very funds are what goes to that specific borrower because that is not the case and never has been (or just in a few cases and/or to a limited extent). You could easily tell that by MFIs disbursing loans the same or the next day (how would Kiva wire your money to them so fast?) or by the information that Kiva employs a (very sensible and necessary) netting practice. Same goes for the information that in case of an expired loan the entrepreneur may still receive funds from the MFI. Also the fact that Kiva borrowers don't seem to get better loan conditions than other borrowers from this MFI (RichardF once told me that) may implicate that we also or even mainly help the MFIs - when I first learnt that, I started to doubt whether to continue lending; so I can perfectly understand your thoughts and why you regard them "low".

But... I am still here, and still convinced we all are doing the right thing. So let me try to explain my thoughts briefly and hope that they will help you (too) in overcoming your doubts.

1. The borrowers do actually exist and need support. Kiva and the MFIs do not create or fabricate anything (that's what I am trusting in).

2. This support can only come in a helpful way from a local MFI.

3. The borrowers' stories show us how important this support is, why it is needed, how it can help and - by journal entries - in some great cases how it actually did help.

4. Thus, it is worthwhile to support MFIs - helping them to become sustainable, increase their loan capital (= being able to support more borrowers), and - by offering them relatively cheap funds - be able to charge relatively modest interest rates.

5. We may not be connected to the individual borrowers by providing the money they receive, but we are connected in a different way: By bearing the risk of their default... when a "Kiva borrower" defaults, this risk of capital loss is completely born by the respective Kiva lenders. So you could maybe see yourself as an underwriter or sponsor of this borrower - which is a very important position. You make absolutely sure that "your" borrowers get the loan and you will feel their individual success or failure.


Maybe it helps, these are just some thoughts.
Best wishes,
Wolfgang.

[abc]

Kiva lets you lend to a specific entrepreneur in the developing
world -- empowering them to lift themselves out of poverty.

The people you see on Kiva's site are real individuals in need of funding - not marketing material. When you browse entrepreneurs' profiles on the site, choose someone to lend to, and then make a loan, you are helping a real person make great strides towards economic independence and improve life for themselves, their family, and their community. Throughout the course of the loan (usually 6-12 months), you can receive email journal updates and track repayments. Then, when you get your loan money back, you can relend to someone else in need.

If that's what they said, Wolfgang, I'd be fine with making decisions based
on those facts. But the quotes above are from Kiva's site, and they lead
me to believe that it is that specific person I am helping fund a loan for.
Do you see why I'm confused then?

[TropicalPete]

abc,

When you loan through Kiva if the borrower/entrepreneur does not make a repayment then you do not get your money back. That's one way in which you are connected to the entrepreneur.

When the MFI funds the entrepreneur before you lend, essentially the MFI is reselling you the loan. They took a temporary risk on an entrepreneur and then they are passing this risk onto you when you lend. The MFI does not repay the loans from general funds; it's from the actual performance of the entrepreneur.

Cheers,
Pete