New Unused Credit Policy

[Guest]

.

[Gerard]

Has ANYONE here seen the elusive newsletter that started being emailed on Dec. 5th?  It's hard to believe that it's already Dec. 9th and no one at KF has received a copy.  From past history, I know that I'll be a few days behind the first here.

If the newsletter itself was officially released when it started being sent on Dec. 5th (or shortly thereafter?), couldn't Gerard or another Kiva employee post an official copy here so we can stop speculating?

Gerard - Another method of improving communication to lenders...  While the Kiva Friends community is a small limited portion of the Kiva community, couldn't you post a copy of the newsletter here when it is/was first available?  That would end a lot of speculation/dissatisfaction here about again being promised something (newsletter on Dec. 5th) that hasn't been delivered.

How can you elicit comments on portions of information in a newsletter that has been received by no one here?

There's some controversy as to where would be best to post the newsletter after it's sent out. I agree that it should be a priority for us to find a place for it to live on Kiva. KivaFriends is not the place. We had to delay the newsletter by three days. Sorry to promise December 5 and then hit go on December 8.

[Gerard]

Now they are asking our opinions about a policy change we have not been notified of - that is mentioned in a newsletter we have yet to see - - PRICELESS!!!

Yet another great example of how Kiva communicates with it's lender/funder base. 


FWIW - Since 90+% of Kiva lenders/funders do not access KF, I do not consider anything posted here on KF as an official communication from Kiva until Kiva notifies me they expect me (and all lenders) to monitor KF as the primary means of getting information about my account.

The policy change is not yet in effect. This was a courtesy heads-up to the KivaFriends community. I did include a link to the blog with the exact same text as was presented in the newsletter. I'm not saying that this serves as official notice of anything - just responding to the overwhelming opinion on KivaFriends and elsewhere that we should be reaching out more and earlier!

[wthepoo]

Gerard,

though I can see many reasons for this policy change, it does bother me for various reasons - also regarding the explanation you are giving.

All you have to do to make sure that you're not considered an inactive Kiva lender is to log into your Kiva account (at a minimum). This policy is an attempt to solve a problem - that, by law, eventually idle funds will have to go away. The question is whether or not those funds go the government or you choose up front to have those funds contributed to Kiva to support its mission to alleviate poverty.

There are IMHO three things to notice here:

1. The time span until dormant property has to be reported and eventually turned in under Californian law is not 12 months but 3 years (http://www.sco.ca.gov/col/ucp/holder/genrptinfo.pdf) - 12 months is not a very long time especially in cases of death/successions etc.

2. Reporting and eventually turning in funds to the government (i.e. the State Controller's Office) does not mean that these funds "go away" for the lenders - they or their heirs will still be able to reclaim them from there (cf. §1501.5 Californian Code of Civil Procedure). Thus, it's not a decision whether the State or Kiva gets the funds but it's basically a decision whether lenders keep their funds or donate them to Kiva.

3. You mention that lenders "choose up front" and later that you "give lenders the ability to make the up-front choice". If that were the case, I would be happy to support it wholeheartedly. Ask lenders at registration (with an option to later reverse their decision) whether they want to have their funds turned over to the SCO after 3 years of inactivity or whether they in this case want to donate the funds to Kiva after this time (not 12 months...), and many will decide to donate... But what you intend to do instead is that you force the decision upon them to "donate". I don't call that a choice. Please bear in mind that in some (probably even: many) cases it will not be lack of interest on the lenders' part that leads to the accounts' inactivity - and that sometimes there may be $1,000s involved.

Best wishes,
Wolfgang.

[RichardF]

We're not in a position to be giving any legal advice. Kiva is a California nonprofit organization, so I'll point you to an information source from the California state controller's office: http://www.sco.ca.gov/col/ucp/lawregs/ucplaw.pdf.

I'm not asking you for your advice.  I'm asking you to justify your impending actions.

[Dagfinn]

1 - We communicated this change in our newsletter, which goes to every lender who hasn't opted out of email. We did this weeks before a change was made.

I can just this; I have only received one - 1 email from Kiva (except the loan messages of course) and that was the pledge from Matt to vote for Kiva on the American Express site.

Neither am I not able to find the newsletter on the Kiva site - what about pdf it there for downloading and view?

This is among the basic principles for communication that one should know working in Customer Services - cost next to nothing and serve an expressed need from the very customer base Kiva exist on!

- Dagfinn A.

[cpbailey]

I hope Kiva is right about its legal position to work around esheat laws.  The cost of being wrong is rather expensive.

§1576. Violation of Chapter
(a) Any person who willfully fails to render any report or perform other duties, including use of the report format described in Section 1530, required under this chapter shall be punished by a fine of one hundred dollars ($100) for each day such report is withheld or such duty is not performed, but not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(b) Any person who willfully refuses to pay or deliver escheated property to the Controller as required under this chapter shall be punished by a fine of not less than five thousand dollars ($5,000) nor more than fifty thousand dollars ($50,000).
(c) No person shall be considered to have willfully failed to report, pay, or deliver escheated property, or perform other duties unless he or she has failed to respond within a reasonable time after notification by certified mail by the Controller's office of his or her failure to act.

Also, gift certificates are not ever able to be taken away in the state of California.  So any funds that were gc's and never loaned, do NOT fall in this category.

One problem is if I know a deceased relative had a kiva account, I cannot give a name to a staff member and show ID and get access to account.  I cannot type name into the state lost asset and get Kiva to pop up.  It is NOT traceable.  Perhaps, Kiva should have a next of kin information on accounts as banks do.  As in name, address and phone number.

Alternatively, we should be asked WHERE we want the funds to go in case of our demise.  California seems in pretty bad shape...maybe it needs the fund more than kiva.  

Perhaps, Kiva is setting up a choice--choose to donate to kiva if you are inactive or close your account.  This is probably not a good time to force this choice upon some Kiva lenders as recent choices have already reduced enthusiasm for some.  I have heard of some long time, big Kiva fans withdrawing funds after the recent policy changes which were not well implemented.  

Sometimes it ain't what you do, but how you do it that has an impact.  Even if it is legal, does it seem fair, right and just?  Is it in the spirit of the laws?

Colette

[RichardF]

The law tells us that inactive funds can't sit in Kiva accounts forever. So we want to give lenders the ability to make the up-front choice to allow these funds to be used to support Kiva's mission.

This "choice" appears to be in the form of, "My way or the highway."  Escheatment laws are intended to protect citizens and their estates against organizations absorbing their funds.  A real choice would include the option to decline automatically turning "inactive" funds to Kiva while still being allowed to participate in the program.

As of this moment. my current inclination is to DECLINE the inactive/donation offer when Kiva holds my feet to the fire on it.

[Ulli]

To Kiva:
Why don't you offer to re-lend the money instead of making it a donation to Kiva?
This must be in everybody's interest: the entrepreneur, Kiva (because the money is not sitting unused in some accounts) and of course the lender because this is they intended to do when they funded their loans.

Ulli

[Sherri]

Really, I'm not sure what else people expect Kiva to do. A whole year after NO active loans, no account logins and no response to communication is a reasonable time to absorb the unused funds. The fact that they force you to agree to this, is not so much them giving you a choice with only one option, but rather, them forcing you to be aware of this condition- rather than bury it in the terms of use.

Ulli - I'm sure there would be some kind of conflict if Kiva started funding loans themselves from some kind of write-off fund. Besides, I think if it goes to operating budget, it can do some real good.

Once again, I'd urge people not to treat their Kiva account like a bank. (I know I'm a broken record here)- I just don't like people getting upset with Kiva's policies about how they will handle the money you put in Kiva... it is an organization, not a bank. You put money in... and ultimately Kiva can do with it what they want. I'm perfectly ok with that myself, because the money is already gone in my mind. I'm sure all this finagling is a result of the advice Kiva gets from their lawyers and accountants. Which they would be foolish to ignore IMHO.

Whew... I come back to the forum for the first time in months and there's so much new stuff going on!! 

[Sherri]

Neither am I not able to find the newsletter on the Kiva site - what about pdf it there for downloading and view?

This is among the basic principles for communication that one should know working in Customer Services - cost next to nothing and serve an expressed need from the very customer base Kiva exist on!

- Dagfinn A.

AMEN!