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Poll
Question: Having loans to citizen's of the world's richest country funded by Kiva members is:
Taking money from the pockets of entrepreneurs in the third world and should be stopped with immediate effect.
A good idea, as it doesn't matter where you live, if you can't access credit, you can't access credit.
Don't know yet.

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Author Topic: USA loans  (Read 75911 times)
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damienlanfrey
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« Reply To This #170 on: June 24, 2009, 03:53:21 PM »

It's all about the context of the relationship or conversation, Damien.

Weinberger focused on business as a conversation.  Kiva is, in my humble opinion, primarily a social conversation. While money does exchange hands and drive entrepreneurship, it's ultimately not about the money.

Take Ariel's experiment involving attorneys and financially poor elderly. When attorneys were approached to donate their services at no cost to elderly individuals who could not otherwise afford representation, a strong majority of the attorneys agreed to provide help. By eliminating financial gain from the equation, Ariely was able to shift the conversation - the relationship - to a social context.  That is to say, a conversation about people helping people.

The experiment was run again. This time, attorneys were asked to provide their services at a substantial discount from their regular fees. One would think that, perhaps, more attorneys might be interested in providing help. After all, they would receive some money rather than none at all. However, it turns out we are not the most rational beings. The number of attorneys willing to provide help dropped dramatically to a minority. Ariely attributed the drop to a shift from a social norm to a "business norm".  In a nutshell, Ariely believes that the introduction of financial gain into the conversation caused attorneys to compare what they could earn per hour, with the rate they were offered - a business conversation.  Why earn, say, $75 per hour when you can earn $150 per hour?

From a business perspective, it's a rational response until we consider that a majority of the attorneys were willing to give the same services away for free in the earlier experiment.

Why provide this example?  Because I think it gets to the heart of Kiva. Kiva is a not-for-profit peer-to-peer lender. By definition members are not in it for profit. It's not a business conversation.

Great example. Smiley

I repeat myself, just to clarify. I wasn't making a point on Kiva being merely a market, I  thought you instead were thinking in terms of markets at the beginning as mentioning personal choice at the heart of Kiva and thus felt to say something about thinking in terms of "individual choice only" might have sounded, but I misjudged I think.  Smiley

One thing more to clarify: I didn't say the word "business", but the word "market". It's a very different thing. Market is about exchange, the process, mechanism , not necessarily money. (although money is the most commonly recognized form of exchange, but still not the only one)
Business is a different thing and regards the purpose/goal and the words surely are not to be easily swapped.

In any case, I was only discussing the notion, and we could discuss more about its elements (supply, demand, exchange, social relation embedded),  not advocating for it.
Hope this is clear now.  Grin

D.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 03:56:23 PM by damienlanfrey » Logged

Researcher at City University, London, Department of Sociology on online activism and Web-native platforms for social change.

For all KivaFriends members and readers: I would be very very grateful if you could fill my short survey on your engagement with Kiva Smiley
Already 99 (+21 previously)  KFs or guests have filled it, hoping that many of you will join. Wink
Open here at: http://www.stellarsurvey.com/s.aspx?u=77320F3E-9B3C-4846-97E3-BB35D980D2DC&
Or check the post at: http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,2964.msg60502.html#msg60502
Skimmis
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« Reply To This #171 on: June 24, 2009, 05:22:00 PM »

What is Kiva from Kiva:
http://media.kiva.org/20081009_Kiva_Introduction.pdf

How many kiva lederes are there from the different countries?
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Jane Sladen
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« Reply To This #172 on: June 24, 2009, 05:38:48 PM »

What is Kiva from Kiva:
http://media.kiva.org/20081009_Kiva_Introduction.pdf

How many kiva lederes are there from the different countries?

184 countries lending; 483,482 lenders.

Jane Sladen.
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YowieFreak
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« Reply To This #173 on: June 24, 2009, 05:53:53 PM »

184 countries lending; 483,482 lenders.

The numbers in the stats at the top of the KivaFriends pages were last updated mid-April.

As of last night the number of lenders was up to 516,542.  (The 500000 barrier was passed on June 1.)

They still represent 184 countries, although at one stage between April and now it went up to 186 countries.
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alan
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« Reply To This #174 on: June 24, 2009, 06:18:18 PM »

The numbers in the stats at the top of the KivaFriends pages were last updated mid-April.

As of last night the number of lenders was up to 516,542.  (The 500000 barrier was passed on June 1.)

They still represent 184 countries, although at one stage between April and now it went up to 186 countries.

Yes, and the Kiva stats now show 46 countries with field partners. Was not the US country number 45? So what new country was just added in the last couple of days? Anyone know? Why no front-page announcement?
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"Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime."
-Aristotle

"When I feed the poor they call me a saint; when I ask why people are poor they call me a communist."
-Dom Helder Carrera
Canadian Here
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« Reply To This #175 on: June 24, 2009, 06:21:52 PM »

I am posting this here because I can't find the 'right' (i.e. "proper") thread. If a moderator would like to move it, please do!

I have a question...

Can a couple get more than 1 Kiva loan, IF they each have their own different business?

For example, she owns a hair salon and he owns an autobody repair shop?

While this situation is less likely in the third world I can easily envision it in the US (and in Canada, too).

Thanks!

Lorna (& "The Critters")

EDIT: If the answer is "no", what's to prevent it?


****FURTHER EDIT: Can someone "in the know" PLEASE respond to my question? Thanks!
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wthepoo
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« Reply To This #176 on: June 24, 2009, 06:38:04 PM »

Yes, and the Kiva stats now show 46 countries with field partners. Was not the US country number 45? So what new country was just added in the last couple of days? Anyone know? Why no front-page announcement?

That'd be Kyrgyzstan, alan, but don't ask me why no front-page announcement.

Can a couple get more than 1 Kiva loan, IF they each have their own different business?

Lorna,
I cannot say for sure, but I think I remember a couple like this from Peru and another one from elsewhere. My recollection is too vague to go searching for them, sorry, so I can be wrong.

Best wishes,
Wolfgang.
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YowieFreak
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« Reply To This #177 on: June 24, 2009, 06:40:44 PM »

****FURTHER EDIT: Can someone "in the know" PLEASE respond to my question? Thanks!

I'm not "in the know" but it seems reasonable to me that, if the MFI believes two people have the ability to repay two loans and the MFI has no other restrictions on supplying two loans to a couple and the MFI actually supplies both people with loans, then the MFI would be entitled to post both loans on Kiva for funding.  (Irrespective of whether that MFI is in the USA or any other country.)
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charity
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« Reply To This #178 on: June 24, 2009, 06:44:12 PM »

Lorna -I may be wrong, but in my experience this depends on the MFI.  In some group loan descriptions, I have seen statements like "Mary and John are siblings, but they have separate incomes and finances, so both were accepted in the group" - implying that relatives would not get loans, especially if it was for the same or connected business.  But once I saw two loans that appeared to be more than one family member taking out separate loans for the SAME business.  So I would definitely think is is Possible that a couple could each get loans for their respective business, however, ultimately, I think it comes down to the MFI rules/procedures.  I would imagine MFIs here in America are much more strict about who they loan to and what kind of collateral is needed.  Of course this is all speculation...
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Canadian Here
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« Reply To This #179 on: June 24, 2009, 06:50:23 PM »

Sounds reasonable. Thanks, Charity!

Lorna (& "The Critters")
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