USA loans

[Guest]

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[YowieFreak]

If anyone notices (and cares), the reason why Richard's graph stops at June 7 is that Kiva changed the stats pages to stop providing us with details of amounts repaid.

I don't know whether it was a deliberate action, or just an accidental change, but I have requested that they make the figures available again.

[RichardF]

If anyone notices (and cares),...

Of course, to n and c!   
Thanks for trying to keep them on their toes!   

[Oriana]

I've really been thinking about all of this and I am concluding that I most prefer smaller loans to people who are experiencing deeper poverty. I really like the feeling that my $25 is making a more critical difference in someone's life rather than making their lives just somewhat better. I still participate in loans that don't meet that ideal. My hope is that Kiva will continue to make a point of working with smaller MFI's who serve those who are dealing with deeper poverty.
I also hope that Kiva will work to have the Field Partners be aware of that we lenders are humans, and thus our hearts are more swiftly and surely reached by photographs that are compelling and with good write ups. One case in point would be Ghana, the entreprenuers are just sitting in a chair..the same chair..in each photo. Certainly I have made loans where the borrower is just sitting in a boring chair in the photo, but the picture sure doesn't give me much of a wow moment. Of course ideally that shouldn't matter but reality is it will. It may not impact those of us who are veteran Kiva supporters, because we know that it is just a poorly taken photo and that the Field Partner didn't put in the effort to do a good write up, but that still there most likely is a very touching story behind it. But what about new lenders who haven't had the touching experiences we older lenders have had? They do need that wow moment to help them understand and appreciate what this is all about. I hope Kiva works on making this aspect of the lending process better.
Oriana

[Australia]

to clarify my position, I am not a fan of the idea that US loans are destroying Kiva.

Nor am I - I have nothing against US loans in principle. Kiva's choice of MFI partner (ACCION eg) is geared towards low and moderate income borrowers, rather than the previous "poverty" borrowers. Coupled with this is the larger loans, lower interest rates and longer repayment terms and some bizarre choices of borrower (I'll forego citing any lest I be accused a daemonizing the borrowers).

Hmm, let me take that "Nor am I" back a little. Whereas in the pre-10 June era I had no problem actively referring people to Kiva, I no longer feel it is something I can do now because of the changed focus. It probably won't destroy Kiva, but it may stunt its growth.

Alas, it's all perception and lies, er, stats

[Kyle]

In a way, we are all our own micro-microlending institutions.  Our association with Kiva allows us to control our overhead/operating expenses in ways that Kiva cannot.  Although Kiva’s system encourages a donation to Kiva (the organization) when we loan to an entrepreneur, we are not required to do so.  Thus, all of us can choose whether or not we want to link our donations to Kiva with our loans in any way.  In my case, donations to Kiva (the organization) come from my annual budget of giving to good causes.  Loans are tied to money saved eating at home instead of eating out.  The two could hardly be more disconnected.  Kiva is simply the vehicle that allows me to do something I want to do in the world.

Because our loan portfolios are public, our loan preferences are available to all who wish to see them.  Therefore, the manner in which our personal micro-microlending institutions support the broader Kiva institution is public.  In fact, we have the opportunity to write our own personal mission statement and make that public.  When I tell people about Kiva, I send them a link to my lender page.   http://www.kiva.org/lender/kyle4714.  With lending teams, we can now further delineate the nature of our support within the larger group.  By now, if I haven’t lent to a beauty salon, I probably am not going to.  If you do, great!  I don’t think there can be any genuine “guilt by association.”

This is the brilliance of Kiva.  We get to be our own micro-institution.  That diversity is part of what makes Kiva interesting.  Kiva is a stunning example of people of wildly different backgrounds and worldviews coming together to make a positive difference in the world.  Think about it.  In this community, we have Muslims loaning to Christians and vice versa AND joining together to do so.  Most of the loans made are to people of wildly different worldviews than the person making the loan.  So, if there is a country you don’t want to loan in, don’t.  If you’re frustrated that the larger institution (Kiva) is allowing others to loan to a country you find inappropriate, give Kiva a smaller annual donation if it makes you feel better.  However, I don’t see how it helps your personal micro-microlending institution if you get discouraged over something you are not required to participate in and stop/freeze you loaning.

Personally, I don’t have enough money to loan to everyone I want to and am nowhere near close to finding myself in that position.  I care more about the education loan I missed out on than the loans I am not interested in to begin with.  With the extremely long loan terms and small quantities of the US loans, I can’t imagine them having any negative impact on the other countries.  Frankly, I wish Kiva were in every country.

Kyle

[tomviolence]

not sure about the "may stunt it's growth" bit - With or without US loans, Kiva is growing. That is undisputable.

As I mentioned previously, it is not the geography of the US loans I find a bit off-putting, it is the amount and term.

I wonder if the lure of interest free capital might influence MFI's to make loans they might not otherwise lend to. While poverty might be in endless supply, qualified borrowers might not be. The US is not the only country with large loans and longer terms. There is a $5,000 Uganda loan out there right now.

I do not mistake Kiva for a charity. When I loan $25.00, I expect it back. That is a reasonable assumption. Perhaps it is unreasonable to think of Kiva as a charity, and therefore commited to giving away assets. The web designers and Self Promoting CD artists are not looking for charity, and none is given.

Pragmaticly, do you think US loans are really the death of Kiva ? Next year at this time, cobwebs will hang from the two US loans that are the only thing available ?

[Dagfinn]

Hmm, let me take that "Nor am I" back a little. Whereas in the pre-10 June era I had no problem actively referring people to Kiva, I no longer feel it is something I can do now because of the changed focus. It probably won't destroy Kiva, but it may stunt its growth.

Why being so strict with Kiva I asked myself?  I am sure not perfect and for sure their communication skills are far less then what serves their own best interest, not to say ours.  They started out with a doze of naivity and we have paid that cost dearly - but wait - it is precisely therefore we are excited about Kiva. 

I have new friends with which I share a desire for a better world, and one by one we are enabled to reach out to people in a way no charity can.  Therefore I take cost of PayPal and try to ignore the injustice brought on me as bigger issues are at stake.  I use my brain when it comes to currency risk knowing it will hardly matter much in the longer run and even though I know one with ease can find poorer people in the US I am glad we have started funded loans in the USA as the need is everywhere though taking different shape and form. 

So until I am perfect myself (it may take some time ) I think I allow the same for Kiva - and work on my own shortcomings 

While on it - I dream of doing person to person lending and not "photo-MFI" funding.  Anyone know how to solve that?

-- Dagfinn A

[wind5001]

I wonder if the lure of interest free capital might influence MFI's to make loans they might not otherwise lend to. While poverty might be in endless supply, qualified borrowers might not be. The US is not the only country with large loans and longer terms. There is a $5,000 Uganda loan out there right now.

I do not mistake Kiva for a charity. When I loan $25.00, I expect it back. That is a reasonable assumption. Perhaps it is unreasonable to think of Kiva as a charity, and therefore commited to giving away assets. The web designers and Self Promoting CD artists are not looking for charity, and none is given.

Hmmm, interesting stance, Tom. I remember to have read somewhere, either in one of Yunus' books or elsewhere, that in order to really improve a developping nation's economy, microloans to small-size companies are needed, mostly in the range between 10,000 and 50,000 dollars. These companies can also often not find funding through traditional banks. They are the ones however that create jobs. Not everyone can be an entrepreneur. An economy also needs companies and businesses that hire people. I therefore have no problem with larger loans on Kiva, especially coming from developing countries. In fact, I highly welcome them!

[Kay]

That's a great perspective, Oli!

[wind5001]

Kyle,

I only saw your post now. A really worthwhile read. Thank you for sharing that perspective, I had never really seen it that way!