USA loans

[Guest]

.

[DoubleR]

Second, why Kiva has decided to support American entrepreneurs and will this activity be expanded in future?

I believe this response dated 7/24/09 on the Kiva blog should answer this specific question:
http://www.kiva.org/about/inside/2009/07/24/update-on-our-pilot-in-us.html

Regards,
Ronan

[wthepoo]

Hi Vahid and welcome to KF,

besides Kiva's statement (see Ronan's post) you will find a discussion of 69 pages in this thread - I have taken the liberty of moving your post (and Ronan's reply) here.

Best wishes,
Wolfgang.

[Brennan]

I will be so thankful is someone from Kiva gives an answer to my questions. First of all, I wonder if America is a developed country or a developing country? I thought it was a developed country so far. It seems I was wrong.

I also look forward to an answer from Vahid's question.

Straight from the Kiva site: "to entrepreneurs in developing countries"

Many articles in well respected news sites such as Times and Washington Post refer to USA as a developed country.

I'm not here to start an argument with you all as I know your very passionate about this topic, but I have to ask this question, how does this fit in with Kiva's goals?



When googling the topic, I found this thread titled 'Kiva Friends - Is USA a "Developing" Country???': http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php?topic=4509.msg71106
I assume its a moderator only thread but I would love to see its contents.

[Diane R]

I'm a moderator and I can't see it either -- it may be a deleted post that was moved out of the main thread into the moderator-only area while being handled, and google caught it at a moment before it was deleted.

Consider it a google goof, there's nothing there to see, sorry.

EDIT: Wolfgang has figured out the actual cause of this, see next post.

--Diane.

[wthepoo]

When googling the topic, I found this thread titled 'Kiva Friends - Is USA a "Developing" Country???': http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php?topic=4509.msg71106
I assume its a moderator only thread but I would love to see its contents.

Brennan,
"Is USA a 'Developing' Country???" was the title Vahid originally gave his post to the "Lounge"-section of this forum earlier today. I have moved this post and Ronan's reply here and chose to replace the subject lines, too, to avoid confusion. It is unfortunate (and causing the confusion I wanted to avoid) that Google still lists the original - now vanished - thread.

As for the question... I think nobody would call the USA as such a developing country (unless, of course, in the sense that all countries are still - and always will be and will have to be - developing). I don't like this terminology "developing" - ("transition" -) "developed" countries, anyway, though, and would prefer Kiva to refrain from its use - but I guess it's just too catchy to omit it.

However, as has been frequently pointed out, there is poverty and there are entrepreneurs (poor or not) that cannot obtain loans from affordable sources besides MFIs in the USA, as well. So why shouldn't Kiva offer to the lenders to support these MFIs (and these entrepreneurs) as well? There have been arguments like "diluting the mission statement" / "deviating from core competences" / "harming entrepreneurs in 'developing' countries" etc. - I don't buy any of them. The latter is the only argument with the potential to hold water for me, but I am almost certain that the overall influx of lenders and funds through the US loans is (much) bigger than the overall amount of US loans - at least so far.

As for the other arguments - and indeed for Vahid's question -: Why is it so important whether Kiva is only offering loans to 'developing' countries - even if they claim to do so in the PR parts of their website? I have never heard anybody complain about an 'electronics' store also selling CDs or pens or about a 'grocer' also selling cutlery or stationery. The main focus of Kiva still is (and will likely remain) on loans to entrepreneurs in what are usually called 'developing' countries - IMHO, that should be enough.

But I know that other lenders are more dogmatic in that respect than I am (I hasten to add that "dogmatic" - at least when used by a lawyer - doesn't have any negative connotations).

Best wishes,
Wolfgang.

[Skimmis]

If you still think there is credit enough for every loan even with the US loans here,
you should consider helping fund some of the loans now in danger of expiring

[Vahid]

A $10,000 loan change change the life of 10 families in a developing country and 10 families mean 50 people at least. Whereas $10,000 for an American entrepreneur can not make any important difference. Someone who has not been able to improve his/her business in such a country like US with all its facilities, loans, line of credit and..., will not be able to do anything with $10,000. He/she will have more debts only.

Best regards,
Vahid
----------------------------------
Join Our Lending Team:
http://www.kiva.org/team/vahid/

[Kathy]

$10,000, depending on the business could support many people - many families. My folks up until they retired where able to hire many people who benefitted from their business. A business owner might have a small family or a large family they're supporting, and might have many suppliers and/or customers who they support by their business being in existence. When my folks retired and were unable to sell their business all their workers, suppliers, and customers lost revenue and/or service/products.

It's unfair to brush all countries and all entrepreneurs with the same brush. Personally, I don't loan to USA entrepreneurs. I'm glad that others do lend to them. I'm glad that they're a part of Kiva. I'd love to see every country on Kiva if they've a need. The US has a need as many of the loans being asked for are going to immigrants. My preference is Sierra Leone and I work my way from there. It's my preference. My choice. My money.

Poverty is poverty regardless of where one lives. Yes, I do think that western poverty is often perceived less harsh than developing countries poverty. As a child, my family was poor and I didn't know it. I didn't know it because my folks always felt more fortunate than others. We had a roof over our heads. Many who are poor in the US don't. We had at least beans and tortillas. Many who are poor don't know when or where their next meal is coming from.

As an American living and working in Calgary, a most affluent city, there's still poverty here. The same as in Sierra Leone? No, yet poverty all the same. People without support, without food, without beds, without electricity, without a home, without a job, without heat, without medication...without...are still poor even if they live in affluent city. Would you have me not give money to the Salvation Army or give food to the food bank or prepare a hamper/gifts for Adopt A Family all because they're westerners and aren't in as much need as someone somewhere else? All my extra money should only go to Kiva that is deemed worthy and their worthiness is only deemed by how poor they are in relation to others? What about Education Generation? Or Plan Canada? Or UNICEF? Or United Way? Or the countless other organizations out there all trying to make a difference in the world?

$10,000 in the hands of a US entrepreneur is similiar in scope to $500 in the hands of a Togo entrepreneur in my books. Both have the money (thankfully through a vehicle like Kiva) and can now use that money to change their life and others.

Out of curiosity, why does it matter if it's a US beauty salon asking for money? I've loaned to a hair stylist in Nigeria http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=95287

are only certain types of businesses worthy of money, too?

[Skimmis]

$10,000, depending on the business could support many people - many families. My folks up until they retired where able to hire many people who benefitted from their business. A business owner might have a small family or a large family they're supporting, and might have many suppliers and/or customers who they support by their business being in existence. When my folks retired and were unable to sell their business all their workers, suppliers, and customers lost revenue and/or service/products.

It's unfair to brush all countries and all entrepreneurs with the same brush. Personally, I don't loan to USA entrepreneurs. I'm glad that others do lend to them. I'm glad that they're a part of Kiva. I'd love to see every country on Kiva if they've a need. The US has a need as many of the loans being asked for are going to immigrants. My preference is Sierra Leone and I work my way from there. It's my preference. My choice. My money.

Poverty is poverty regardless of where one lives. Yes, I do think that western poverty is often perceived less harsh than developing countries poverty. As a child, my family was poor and I didn't know it. I didn't know it because my folks always felt more fortunate than others. We had a roof over our heads. Many who are poor in the US don't. We had at least beans and tortillas. Many who are poor don't know when or where their next meal is coming from.

As an American living and working in Calgary, a most affluent city, there's still poverty here. The same as in Sierra Leone? No, yet poverty all the same. People without support, without food, without beds, without electricity, without a home, without a job, without heat, without medication...without...are still poor even if they live in affluent city. Would you have me not give money to the Salvation Army or give food to the food bank or prepare a hamper/gifts for Adopt A Family all because they're westerners and aren't in as much need as someone somewhere else? All my extra money should only go to Kiva that is deemed worthy and their worthiness is only deemed by how poor they are in relation to others? What about Education Generation? Or Plan Canada? Or UNICEF? Or United Way? Or the countless other organizations out there all trying to make a difference in the world?

$10,000 in the hands of a US entrepreneur is similiar in scope to $500 in the hands of a Togo entrepreneur in my books. Both have the money (thankfully through a vehicle like Kiva) and can now use that money to change their life and others.

Out of curiosity, why does it matter if it's a US beauty salon asking for money? I've loaned to a hair stylist in Nigeria http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=95287

are only certain types of businesses worthy of money, too?

Do you think people from Uk, Germany, Australia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc should also get loans on Kiva ?
Even if this takes about half the the amount available on Kiva, so that more loans to devloping countries went unfunded ?
Isnt there a great difference between the rich countries with a working financial system and developing countries?

[A Nonny Mouse]

That reminds me...I'm ready for Kiva to expand to Canada so I can add it to my countries list...

Canadian loans now!