USA loans

[Guest]

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[Ashley]

I firmly believe that option 1 is the only way to go, but I want to know how many people agree with me. Get voting people!

[waywardcats]

Taking money from the pockets of entrepreneurs in the third world and should be stopped with immediate effect.

What indications do you see that money is being taken "from the pockets of entrepreneurs in the third world"?  From my observations since the launch of US loans there has been no drastic reduction in the lending on Kiva to non-US loans.  If some individuals have chosen to sign up for Kiva and made one $25 loan to a US entrepreneur then it is reasonable to assume that they are here to support people in their own communities and do not wish to support people abroad (at least right now). 

-Kerry-

[Ashley]

The difference is that US citizens have access to a vast array of credit options.

I thought Kiva was set up to help the impoverished people of the world. Even the poorest Americans are neither impoverished nor underprivileged by say, Palestinian or Vietnamese standards.

Just because life in the western world got a little less "rich", doesn't mean that organizations like KIVA have to come running.

When I first heard about Kiva I thought it was something very special. I told a lot my friends and family about Kiva! The whole idea was so simple and it worked. A poor guy like me could actually help somebody in greater need.

If my family and friends comes to the site now and sees that we give money away - in sums of thousands of dollars - they would think it's a bank. It's not and never should be! It's called microfinancing for a reason.

What makes it even worse is that the American loans are generally for considerably more than any other country. The average loan size on Kiva is currently $412. Right now there are loans to the US available to fund for $10,000

Check this one out. I'm genuinely concerned about this woman. I mean, what is she going to do without an outsdoor storage shed?!

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=113826&_tpos=1&_tpg=61

[saabnet]

If anything, the US splash brought more lenders to Kiva.org who are going to lend to developing countries as well. I'll exercise my own personal option of not loaning to US borrowers (except the one I did to complete my Kiva country bingo), but this is hardly the death of Kiva, quite opposite, in fact.

-Scott

[Ashley]

Please then, tell me why this guy needs my money.

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=114345&_tpos=13&_tpg=60

I can tell you right now that he looks and sounds far better off than I am. How is funding a loan to this person in line with the Kiva ethos?

Don't get me wrong, I hope he gets a loan, improves his business, does great and lives happily ever after, but it shouldn't be through Kiva. People in the USA, just like here in the UK, are some of the most priviledged people in the world and already have access to more credit options, opportunities and a host of social and government support structures that people in the third world could ever dream of.

I respect your point of view but I can't continue my support while this is going on.

[waywardcats]

Please then, tell me why this guy needs my money.

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=114345&_tpos=13&_tpg=60

I can tell you right now that he looks and sounds far better off than I am. How is funding a loan to this person in line with the Kiva ethos?

Don't get me wrong, I hope he gets a loan, improves his business, does great and lives happily ever after, but it shouldn't be through Kiva. People in the USA, just like here in the UK, are some of the most priviledged people in the world and already have access to more credit options, opportunities and a host of social and government support structures that people in the third world could ever dream of.

I respect your point of view but I can't continue my support while this is going on.

Hi Ashley,

I guess my answer would have to be that he doesn't particularly need your money.  He needs a loan, and it appears that there are a few people who have decided to lend some to him.  If more don't decide to loan to him in 21 days then he will not get a Kiva loan.  What's the harm in his asking for one?

I agree that the US borrowers that have been highlighted so far have been in vastly different circumstances than most Kiva Entrepreneurs we have seen from Cameroon or Kenya or Viet Nam.  You have every right to lend to those people and not people from the US. 

I am sorry that you feel so strongly about this that you would pull your support from all Kiva borrowers, even those whom you do feel are worthy.  But that is your privilege and right if that is what you think is best.

-Kerry-

[Limesarah]

So far, loans in many other countries are getting funded faster than loans in the US.  The oldest loan on the site is almost 3/4 funded and still has 12 days to go, so I think it's stretching it to say that loans to the US are in any way depriving borrowers in poorer nations from getting funded.  If anything, the publicity so far seems to be causing them to get funded even faster. 

I'd be even happier if Kiva partnered with MFIs in the seriously underdeveloped areas of the US (say, Appalachia), but Kiva isn't the one *establishing* the MFIs.  There may just not be an existing organization that fits Kiva's profile working in those areas right now. 

With the economy the way it is, someone can be extremely poor even in the midst of wealth.  Medical bills, a foreclosure, or other debt sources can cause someone to fall hard and fast in a way that's almost invisible at first and often highly stigmatized.  While obviously a greater portion of people in Cambodia are in need of microfinance than are in the US, I think Kiva is doing the "developed" world a great service as well in helping to create a feeling of unity around debt and poverty rather than sweeping it under the rug and saying that well, we're all rich here, so obviously nobody could possibly get turned away from a bank if they needed a loan.

[reb-mar]

I agree with you Sarah.

I posted this on another thread, but think it's appropriate for a link to be placed here as well.
http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,3650.msg60766.html#msg60766

         Rebecca

[Alphecca]

Right now there are 1198 fund-raising loans posted on Kiva. 14 of these are located in the US. It's not like the US loans have overwhelmed and crowded out the other choices!

I've looked a a few of the US loans, too. It is difficult to start or expand a small business in the US. Competition in these small services businesses (photography, child care, taxis, etc.)  is intense and banks are very leery of taking any risk at all, so credit has virtually dried up for them. Credit card interest rates are exorbitant, and I don't even want to bring up those usurious pay-day loans.

The loans are larger here, because costs are higher and there are considerable legal restrictions on business conduct, and much higher financial hurdles to entry.  Many of the Kiva loans in developing countries are for livestock, stocking a outdoor market stall, inventories of used clothing, and so on. A little money goes a very long way for these businesses. 

Entrepreneurs on the lowest rung of society but with the desire and courage to pull themselves up out of poverty by hard work and devotion deserve to be given a chance.  And Kiva lenders have the choice of funding those loans with characteristics that appeal to them.

I applaud Kiva for their global open-mindedness and selecting non-profit field partners who do the unenviable task of screening the entrepreneurs and managing all the collections and paperwork.

[Kay]

 

Good to see you back, Alph!