Download the Kiva toolbar! - (what's this?)

May 24, 2012, 07:43:29 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register (it's quick and free!) for full access to all community features and functions, including instant messaging and message viewing preferences.

Login with username, password and session length

Cool Forum Options
: Not available. Login or register :)
: Popular Topics on Kiva Friends

Kivapedia
: View recent changes on Kivapedia
: Online shopping that helps support Kiva
: List of Kiva microfinance institutions
: List of Kiva group lenders
: Kiva Timeline : More...


.
Welcome to Kiva Friends, an active community for Kiva users, staff and supporters. Don't know what Kiva is? Read this!
   
   Home   Search Calendar Help Tags Login Register  

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Bookmark This  |  E-Mail This  |  Print It  
Author Topic: Political discussions and rants  (Read 2798 times)
0 Members and 4 Guests were last seen viewing this topic.
Henry
Kiva Supporter
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3883


hmmm, that smells like metal

View Profile
« Reply To This #10 on: July 27, 2009, 09:03:18 AM »

Palin Palin Palin -----------weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Logged

ornitzi bilatzi monteisizi
carien
Kiva Supporter
*****
Posts: 392


View Profile
« Reply To This #11 on: July 27, 2009, 11:54:32 AM »

Bala I understand what you are saying but all those people here on Kiva they just want to help others. If you do not want to loan to US so you don't. But when I look at my self why is my favourite country to lend  Lebanon? That is because I married a Lebanese and I know the country better than the others so I can understand why people from the US want to help them own people. I do exact the same. People here they know that wars are terrible and never right I only fail to see what that has to do with Kiva You made your point but every point have more sides than one.Like you I hope that one day there will be no wars and that there may come peace in the Middle East. Perhaps we can't help the whole world however every step we make is one.

May peace be upon you

Carine
Logged
Jill
Guest
« Reply To This #12 on: July 27, 2009, 04:09:00 PM »

I wouldn’t have wanted censorship, and I wouldn’t have wanted personal attacks.  But I very much did want and had hoped for public statements, especially by the moderators who are constantly deciding what is acceptable and what is not at KivaFriends, but also, statements from some of the active and especially veteran members of the Forum, something to the effect of “Not in Our Forum.”


It’s one thing to condemn the immoral actions of governments and even the silence and apparent acquiescence of large numbers of the citizenry of those countries in the face of those actions.  I get terrifically angry, disillusioned, and more than anything, deeply saddened, myself, when I hear of various acts committed by my own country's government and by Israel's, among others. 


But for me, it’s quite another thing to broadbrush paint entire groups of people, whether of a similar religion, skin color, ethnic or national origin, sexual orientation or whatever as though all people were alike and could be “known” and judged, based merely on some physical attribute or some other classificatory parameter over which they had little or no control or that tells nothing of what is in their hearts or how they, as individuals, conduct their lives.

I really really wish you guys had spoken up. I know of many of the reasons why people would choose not to, including, probably, “the less said the better.” 

In connection with that explanation, and in connection with a whole lot of other things, I’d ask you to watch the five minute video that follows that’s about a story I first learned about in the early 90’s.  I'd actually taped a segment off Charles Kuralt's CBS Sunday Morning show that highlighted it.  I was then able to use it as a teaching tool with elementary and junior high school kids.  The original segment was incredibly powerful.   A brick that had been thrown through a child's bedroom window just missed the pillow where the kid lay sleeping, maybe by inches.   I felt that there was a lesson in it for all of us, and that it didn't matter one whit which group was being attacked "this week."


http://www.pbs.org/niot/


http://www.pbs.org/niot/about/niot1.html


The last link is one I chanced on, this morning, when a particular quote came to mind, because of all this, and I wanted to re-read it and understand its origins.
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/niem.htm

Jill

I’d actually started to write Bala a personal message to try to keep this from being perpetuated any further on the Forum’s pages.  But since a particular sentiment now stands written, then referenced,  a total of five times, already,  the thought occurred to me that I didn’t want people coming to “my” Forum, seeing those lines, and then thinking that nobody here really very much cared.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 04:18:50 PM by Jill » Logged
Diane R
Administrator
Bay Area, CA
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 4274



View Profile
« Reply To This #13 on: July 27, 2009, 04:14:20 PM »

In partial response, I'd like everyone to know that the moderating team is actively working on an expanded set of "Guiding Principles" for posting at KivaFriends, based on earlier suggestions made by RichardF, and we expect to post something very soon.  Many of the concerns you raise are addressed there, and if we all would read and reread these principles, and follow them in our hearts and in our conversations and in our posts, the forum, and the world, would be a much better place.


hoping to post something soon,
--Diane.
(not a proponent of "the less said, the better", as you probably already know)
Logged
Mona
Kiva Supporter
Berlin
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 2255


Dawn at 3.069 m on La Reunion's Piton de Neige

View Profile
« Reply To This #14 on: July 27, 2009, 04:26:18 PM »

Wonderful video! Thank you so much for sharing, Jill!  Kiss And you are so right in what you say - it is always the indiviual and not "the" country, "the" population or "the" religion that decides which way we are to follow, the way of hatred or the way of love and peace.

Best wishes,
Mona
Logged
Wood Fairy Glenda
Kiva Supporter
Madison, WI
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 999



View Profile
WWW
« Reply To This #15 on: July 27, 2009, 04:32:56 PM »

I, too, loved the video, Jill. Thumbs Up
....and I just want to say that I hope you stick with KivaFriends  for a long time.  A mutual KivaFriend, in a PM, called you "The Conscience of Kiva Friends." Keep at it, Jill.  We need you. Smiley
Logged

Wood Fairy Glenda
AccountAbility
Kiva Supporter
Friday Harbor, WA
*****
Posts: 2615



View Profile
« Reply To This #16 on: July 27, 2009, 04:43:50 PM »

Since this thread is moving toward generalizations, I will throw in my 2 cents.  

Many participants here use the "show most recent posts" link to keep up with the various conversations.  Others use the link called "List of Recent Threads with unread posts".  (I personally prefer the latter.)

When the number of posts not directly relating to Kiva and its work toward alleviating poverty--as useful or important as these issues might be in the wider world-- become so numerous that they totally overwhelm Kiva related topics on these lists, then I think this forum has significantly suffered.  

Generally, this has happened only a couple of times when a number of side topics were causing significant volumes at the same time.  I would conclude from this that Kiva Friends is by and large a civil group that largely keeps on topic.  So it shouldn't take a lot of "policing" to keep it that way.

Anyway, that is just my personal opinion.

Dan
Logged

We are loaners!
Kay
Kiva Supporter
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 1647


View Profile
« Reply To This #17 on: July 27, 2009, 06:21:19 PM »

That's a wonderful lesson, Jill. Thumbs Up
Logged
gill
Kiva Supporter
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 86


View Profile
« Reply To This #18 on: July 27, 2009, 07:26:56 PM »

I probably shouldn't be posting this, as it's only going to fall on deaf ears and fan the flames, but I'm going to anyway, seeing as how I was mentioned in the OP and usually try to respond when addressed. Also, I'm annoyed. If the forum mods decide it's not worth keeping such a...'discussion' going, and delete/move/whatever this post, that's fine and I understand completely.

Now then. Bala:

It's obvious you have serious grievances with the US, and that's fine. I don't agree with several of your points, but they're your opinions and you're welcome to them. However, keep in mind that it's pretty hard to believe your claim that you're NOT ignorant when you say things like, "Destroyng the Palestine people is the work of jews". I mean, maybe it's just translation errors (and since English apparently isn't your first language, I'm hoping that's all it is) and maybe I'm just misunderstanding you (please correct me if I am), but saying "the country is oppressed for 60 years know by the jews" and then telling me to 'learn history' is irony at its finest/worst.

Not that it'll matter to you, but I made a loan to a Palestinian man a week ago, and--GASP!--I'm also a conservative-temple-belonging Jew! Believe it or not, there aren't any secret meetings where us Jews get together and plot to take over the world. We also don't poison wells, cause the plague, or use the blood of Christian babies for our secret rituals  Wink . Most of us (I'd say the majority, but obviously I can't speak for everyone), support both Israel in its right to exist and the Palestinians for their right to their own country and chances at happiness. The situation between Palestine and Israel is heartbreaking, and I hope desperately that the two sides can somehow, some day, have peace instead of war. My Palestinian loan was a feeble attempt at dragging that day closer.

People feel strongly about the Palestine/Israel issue, as well as the issue of American policy. But a forum thread dedicated to discussion of whether or not borrowers from the USA belong on Kiva, is really NOT the place to blame those evil Jews for every ounce of suffering in the Middle East.
Logged
Diane R
Administrator
Bay Area, CA
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 4274



View Profile
« Reply To This #19 on: July 28, 2009, 06:05:00 PM »

As promised, the moderating team has posted a set of proposed KivaFriends Guiding Principles, and would appreciate your thoughts and comments.  We hope the existence of a set of such principles for which there is a community consensus will help guide new and experienced participants alike.  Thanks.

Principles:  http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,4137.0.html
Discussion thread:  http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,4136.0.html

--Diane, for the moderating team.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Bookmark This  |  E-Mail This  |  Print It  
 
Jump to:  

 
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Thanks to PixelSlot
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.116 seconds with 23 queries.