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Author Topic: Input for Kiva staff on the "Popularity algorithm"  (Read 17478 times)
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Dottie b
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« Reply To This #40 on: October 15, 2009, 11:24:09 AM »

DonorsChoose.org, which funds teachers' projects in public schools, sorts projects by urgency, cost, poverty, fewest days left, and popularity. (You can search on many other filters, also.) The default is Urgency. A nice touch is that they give us a definition of urgency: How is "Urgency" determined?

"The Urgency ranking looks for projects which:
- Come from high poverty schools;
- Will help teachers who've never been funded before;
- Have been partially funded by several donors; and
- Don't have much time left.
It's tough to match all these criteria, but our Urgency ranking finds projects meeting as many of those criteria as possible. The ranking is automated and updated thoughout each day."

They tell us that "Popularity ranks classroom projects based on the number of donors that have supported them. "

I like their Urgency definition. Note that it doesn't include "projects we think will attract new donors," though I suspect many of them will.

Incidentally DonorsChoose lists many thousands of projects (you used to be able to see how many, but I can't figure out how to do that now - it's not only Kiva that makes changes that are not for the better!) - and many many projects go unfunded.

Dottie B
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alan
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« Reply To This #41 on: October 15, 2009, 04:31:45 PM »

I promised more today, and so here goes.

But first, I like Dottie's comments about "urgency" as a category.

It seems to me that no matter how we devise an algorithm to reflect popularity, it is rather a blunt instrument. Taking into account my earlier comments about the possibility of sorting by amount funded or percent funded as a measure of popularity, either would become a sort of buggy-looking version of "Amount Left". Amount funded would quickly favour larger loans, and percent funded would start by favouring smaller loans (e.g. a loan of $100 gets a 25% boost for every $25, while a loan of $5000 gets 0.5% for each $25) but in fact percent funded would also ultimately favour larger loans. (A loan for $100 can get no more than 75% without being fully funded, while a loan for $5000 can go up to 99%.) One way to correct for this a bit would be to assign "popularity points" in amounts of, say, 1 point per $25 lent (i.e., checked out) and 10 or possibly 25 points per percentage point funded. Or you might need to refine it with, say, 25 points per percent up to 50%, then 10 points to 75%, 5 up to 90% and 1 beyond that. It would help to let the smaller loans compete with large ones. But you would still have a blunt instrument.

In fact, the problem is the equation of "popular" with "compelling". The desire is to present some "compelling" loans to new lenders, and that seems a very sensible thing to do. But with the current algorithm, it is assumed that "compelling" is the same as "several people have recently lent $25 each to this loan" or "several people have recently clicked on it" (and as Ian points out, if I click and move on without lending, isn't that a sign that it's not compelling?) or "look, it has a video, how cool!" But in truth, "compelling" is subjective, and not easily measured by mere statistical metrics.

Here are a few things I think make a loan compelling:
-interesting loan write up, good story;
-interesting specific details in the story (e.g., single mother, widow, unusual business);
-high-quality, attractive photo (video = waste of bandwidth to me);
-lack of currency risk;
-short repayment term;
-translation of the loan description;
-loan about to expire;
-Women in Hats.

All of these are subjective, and quite arbitrary. They are among my personal loan criteria. I make no apologies for them, nor any claim that they are in any way normative for anyone else. My criteria are my criteria, and yours are yours, and that's fine with me.

So how do we get at "compelling"? Here I think there are a couple of ways forward, none of which are mutually exclusive.

One possibility suggests itself from a Canadian bookseller. Indigo Books / Chapters (two brands for the same company) are run by Heather Riesman. They have both physical stores and an on-line store, rather like Barnes and Noble in the USA. If you walk into their stores, there is a prominent display of "Heather's Picks". You can see a similar display on their website. So, why not offer "Matt's Picks" on the front page of Kiva? The idea would be that Matt Flannery could personally select loans that are, in his opinion, particularly compelling, noteworthy or worthy of being funded, using whatever criteria he wants or even just his gut. Of course, the task could be partially or completely delegated, perhaps with people encouraged to make suggestions to him. But the idea would be that some kind of short list of, say 20-50 loans could be selected manually, using the human touch, and specifically showcased to attract new lenders. This kind of approach would avoid the obvious anomalies of the most recent loan being assumed to be the most compelling and so on. The idea could be expanded into "staff picks" where Kiva staff would each be able to add a small number (1? 5?) of personal picks per day to the list. In essence, this would be a sort of official version of the KF "sell the kids" thread. There could even be some mechanism, such as contests or random draws, to invite Kiva lenders to become guest staff picks pickers for a day (say, allowing 10 picks by the guest for one 24-hour period). That would help to generate "buzz" and a measure of interactivity.

As to contests, how about one for best entrepreneur photo? The idea would be to invite lenders to submit their nominations for the best photo of the day or of the week. Again, this could generate buzz, and also encourage a measure of competition among the MFIs to get a best photo mention. Photo of the week could be showcased with a link to the MFI, and perhaps lenders nominating could have their names put in a hat to be chosen at random for guest staff picker as above.

With some kind of system for manually showcasing loans, "compelling" loans could be divorced from any of the underlying sorts. I know I said earlier I wouldn't tilt at this windmill, but such an approach could allow for removal of the popularity sort as a default.

If you wanted to go with some kind of automated system for showcasing, then I suggest a totally new approach to defining popularity. Rather than the current combination of lender behaviour, the narrow criterion of having a video, and the dumb luck to be newly posted with no immediate competition, I suggest that there might be some kind of system for determining "Popularity Points" based on any number of factors intrinsic to each loan. Some factors could be based on keyword searches for such known "compelling" factors as single mothers, widows, men with cows, women in hats, education loans, people with disabilities, and so on. Other factors might include personal borrowing history (e.g., "this is x's fifth loan and he has always paid on time"), MFI rating (assuming these are refined so they accurately reflect risk) etc. What I am suggesting is a kind of quasi-artificial intelligence system for rating loans on a point system as to how compelling they are, using much more spphisticated criteria than the current brute-force Popularity sort. Staff picks could be incorporated into such a system by allowing for, say, 100 or 1000 popularity points to be added just because Joe in shipping says he likes this loan among his 5 for the day.

I once had an Ethics professor who said "always be aware of the dark side". So here's the dark side: with a more subjective measure of "compelling", which I believe is more honest and more sophisticated than the current or any measure of Popularity, there is the problem of what to do with the not-so-compelling loans. The simple fact is that, boring or ordinary though they may seem, Bolivian group loans or men-with-cows, or women with grocery stores are no doubt the bread and butter of the MFIs and they represent the efforts of real people on the ground to make a living. And they still need to be funded. There are only so many young, attractive, disabled, widowed, single-mother artisanal beekeepers with fabulous photos around. By all means, they are compelling, and they are worth supporting. But a middle-aged man with 6 mouths to feed and a farm to run needs the funding, too. The more we search for the best measure of "compelling" to draw in new lenders, the more we risk mass expiry of loans that just don't get noticed.

I think mass expiry of loans changes the equation for the MFIs, and does so in a way that may not be fair to them. So we really need to take that into consideration in stepping forward.

To sum up: personally, I think some kind of subjective showcasing of "compelling" loans on the front page, combined with a straight FIFO list as the default would be best. Failing that, a more sophisticated heuristic mechanism, perhaps in combination with "Matt's Picks" and/or "Staff Picks" might work, but great care would have to be taken to observe what happens with respect to expiring loans. Bottom priority would be to tinker with the Popularity algorithm, perhaps by making it truly reflect lender behaviour and nothing else, as described at the top. Again, this could also be implemented alongside "Matt's/Staff Picks".

I hope this is of some interest and even of some help.
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"Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime."
-Aristotle

"When I feed the poor they call me a saint; when I ask why people are poor they call me a communist."
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AccountAbility
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« Reply To This #42 on: October 15, 2009, 07:04:31 PM »

Alan said "Then I asked: is Kiva unalterably committed to the Popularity sort as the default? and Gerard's response was:

Quote
We're pretty committed to it for now. I can't see us moving away from having popularity be the default any time soon.
                     ***************************
All I am saying is that at least for now let's deal with what is reality.  The only variable Kiva is willing to tinker with is the formula that produces the popularity sort.  So let's stick with improving that formula.

Dan

« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 11:30:11 PM by AccountAbility » Logged

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Dottie b
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« Reply To This #43 on: October 15, 2009, 07:51:51 PM »

Then I asked: is Kiva unalterably committed to the Popularity sort as the default? and Gerard's response was:

Quote
We're pretty committed to it for now. I can't see us moving away from having popularity be the default any time soon.

All I am saying is that at least for now let's deal with what is reality.  The only variable Kiva is willing to tinker with is the formula that produces the popularity sort.  So let's stick with improving that formula.

Dan

This tells me that Kiva is interested only in getting new money from new lenders. And the heck with the borrowers and the older lenders. Marketing above all. And I'd hoped Kiva was different. sigh.

Yeah, I'll be pulling more money out.

Dottie B
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alan
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« Reply To This #44 on: October 15, 2009, 07:58:50 PM »

This tells me that Kiva is interested only in getting new money from new lenders. And the heck with the borrowers and the older lenders. Marketing above all. And I'd hoped Kiva was different. sigh.

To try to put it more positively, I would suggest that Kiva is interested in helping new lenders to become interested and sufficiently enthusiastic to grow into core lenders. It's relatively easy to attract someone to lend the first $25. The key issue is to give that person a reason to come back for the next $25. I don't see this as cynically as you seem to suggest, Dottie. I see it as one of incorporating people into the core group as effectively as possible.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 08:48:19 PM by alan » Logged

"Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime."
-Aristotle

"When I feed the poor they call me a saint; when I ask why people are poor they call me a communist."
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alan
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« Reply To This #45 on: October 15, 2009, 08:01:07 PM »

All I am saying is that at least for now let's deal with what is reality.  The only variable Kiva is willing to tinker with is the formula that produces the popularity sort.  So let's stick with improving that formula.

Yes, but. I've tried to give a suggested way of tinkering if that is truly the only way they want to go forward. I've also tried to suggest as compelling as possible an argument for a way to go beyond tinkering. For the second time today, I find myself saying, "Call me Don Quixote."
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"Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime."
-Aristotle

"When I feed the poor they call me a saint; when I ask why people are poor they call me a communist."
-Dom Helder Carrera
RichardF
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« Reply To This #46 on: October 15, 2009, 08:12:21 PM »

All I am saying is that at least for now let's deal with what is reality.  The only variable Kiva is willing to tinker with is the formula that produces the popularity sort.  So let's stick with improving that formula.

Dan

Okay, here's my nomination for the first (and only) "popularity" factor...  Cool

Factor:  Randomize()
Dim value As Integer = CInt(Int((1500 * Rnd()) + 1))
Weight:  1.0

 Laugh
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tomviolence
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« Reply To This #47 on: October 15, 2009, 08:20:04 PM »

One thing to consider, is that the demand for loans will have to grow if Kiva wishes to be a Billion Dollar company. Already, in reading about the USA loan that has reportedly a "F" rating from the BBB and no state license, one can imagine the need for new loans will mirror the current housing crisis, where vetting loans become a rubber stamp approval process, as there are incentives to loan irresponsibly.  Lenders are offering no interest capital. MFI's have less than nothing to lose. They will likely take their cut off the top, and if the loan defaults, they still have made the interest off any payments, and never be dogged for the loose ends.

Popularity's primrose path is not the way.

Do not, as some ungracious pastors do,
Show me the steep and thorny way to heaven,
Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine,
Himself the primrose path of dalliance treads
And recks not his own rede.
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Some spend winter in a palace, some spend it in blankets
Dont wag your fingers at them and turn to walk away
Dont shoot someone tomorrow that you can shoot today
Time to end the praying
Listen what they're saying"

The Housemartins - "Get up off your knees" - from "London 0 Hull 4"
Jan & John
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« Reply To This #48 on: October 18, 2009, 09:45:45 AM »

I think my 'main' comment regarding the 'popularity' choice is...

I hope Kiva begins to see that 'clicks' or 'viewing activity' is a negative not a positive number.

When I 'click' and then move on, it should mean I have voted against that loan.

thanks, jan
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1 click per person per day on this link means 1 additional cent for the Fistula Foundation - thanks!
Mona
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« Reply To This #49 on: October 18, 2009, 09:53:33 AM »

IMHO one of the best ways to make the Kiva site more compelling for lenders (new and core) is to show them how urgent their help is needed. Therefore I suggest as a compromise to reserve one slot of the "most popular" page for the oldest loan on the page.   
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