Download the Kiva toolbar! - (what's this?)

February 11, 2012, 02:02:23 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register (it's quick and free!) for full access to all community features and functions, including instant messaging and message viewing preferences.

Login with username, password and session length

Cool Forum Options
: Not available. Login or register :)
: Popular Topics on Kiva Friends

Kivapedia
: View recent changes on Kivapedia
: Online shopping that helps support Kiva
: List of Kiva microfinance institutions
: List of Kiva group lenders
: Kiva Timeline : More...


.
Welcome to Kiva Friends, an active community for Kiva users, staff and supporters. Don't know what Kiva is? Read this!
   
   Home   Search Calendar Help Tags Login Register  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Bookmark This  |  E-Mail This  |  Print It  
Author Topic: Call for General Strike  (Read 1664 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest were last seen viewing this topic.
tomviolence
Kiva Supporter
Movin' to Florida
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 334


A mile and a half on a bus takes a long time

View Profile
« on: October 11, 2009, 04:45:34 PM »



Call for General Strike

First, and most importantly, this is not designed to hurt borrowers, nor will it hurt borrowers. The great majority of Kiva loans are already funded, and disbursed to the borrowers by the time we see them.

Secondly, while stopping loaning with credits or added funds is one way to call attention to the displeasure with the recent remark “Thinks that a modest amount of expiration on the @kiva site is healthy because it is an expression of user preferences. “ by matt flannery , a simple withdrawal of even 1 dollar from your account could show solidarity with striking.

Thirdly, overcoming negativity. The charming trinity of Lender Kiva Borrower works best when all three parts are balanced. Without borrowers, there would not be lenders, and without Kiva in the middle, borrowers and lenders would not connect. Negativity implies imbalance. Since the equation is that lenders will always be the loser (there is no chance for financial gain, only loss), making sure lenders have enough other benefits to make up for the  downside only risk of lending is important. The borrowers are represented by the MFIs. The MFIs interests are not always in line with the lenders. The key question is, is Kiva a neutral party, an agent for the MFI against the lender, a player for its own power or the balance for the lender and the MFI ? IS negativity expressed here as a result of imbalance in the existing situation ? Can inspired action return us to harmony ?

Fourthly, why is this different than striking for posting USA loans or blood sports ? Because rather than social questions, it shows a difference in function. Kiva acting as decider for what will be funded, as well as showing it is not committed to funding the loans it posts.  This reveals a basic disconnect from either being a neutral meeting place for lender and borrower, or an advocate for lenders. Having stretched the triangle with saddling lenders with currency loss, it has now further removed themselves from the sphere of lenders, leaving lenders merely as fodder for its aspirations.

Finally, I would suggest the period of the 15th to the 19th (or longer if you wish) to cease funding and make symbolic withdrawals. Any loan in danger of expiring on the 15th – 19th (60 right now), should be continued to be funded. The goal is not to hurt borrowers, but rather raise awareness of the disconnect between lenders and Kiva management.

Obviously, this is my opinion on how things are, and how to change them. I do not expect all to share my view point. Even more obviously, Kiva does not share my viewpoint  Pissy

I respect anyone’s wish to loan, or not,  as they please.

Logged

"Famines will be famines, banquets will be banquets
Some spend winter in a palace, some spend it in blankets
Dont wag your fingers at them and turn to walk away
Dont shoot someone tomorrow that you can shoot today
Time to end the praying
Listen what they're saying"

The Housemartins - "Get up off your knees" - from "London 0 Hull 4"
Jan & John
Kiva Supporter
Calgary, Canada
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 2242



View Profile
WWW
« Reply To This #1 on: October 14, 2009, 12:13:30 PM »

I'm sorry, but I cannot join to strike.

You are welcome to send Kiva an email telling them why you plan to strike.

I think Kiva is far far from the perfect system...

but I also think a few KF striking would be counterproductive.

I feel that's a negative response and would be ignored anyway by Kiva because we here at KF really don't 'represent' anyone but ourselves.

jan
Logged

"The place God calls you to is the place where your deepest gladness and the world's deepest hunger meet" - Fredrick Buechner (in Wishful Thinking).
"Every child should be well born, well fed, well taught, well housed and well treated."
Maude Riley, Alberta Council on Child and Family Welfare 1923
"Each of us feels that we are just a drop in the ocean, but the ocean would be less without that missing drop." --Mother Teresa

1 click per person per day on this link means 1 additional cent for the Fistula Foundation - thanks!
cpbailey
Kiva Supporter
*****
Posts: 2070



View Profile
« Reply To This #2 on: October 14, 2009, 12:41:23 PM »

While I am frustrated with some things about Kiva, I will not be striking.  I prefer to put my energy and effort into figuring out something to make a positive difference.  Those with like spirits, perhaps you would like to join in on the chat Thursday at 2:00pm Pacific time.

My Kiva related efforts will be to select loans which have aspects that I want to see more of, and not loan for things that I wish Kiva hadn't done.  I will make one of about four loans to a loan either in red or from the first of the month.  At least two of the four will be agriculture loans, as Poverty2Prosperity is focusing on agriculture for the month of October.  So if you LOVE agriculture, loan to agriculture early or pickings will be slim! 

Colette

Logged
JohnR
Kiva Supporter
Holly Springs, NC
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 355



View Profile
« Reply To This #3 on: October 14, 2009, 01:48:09 PM »

Sorry, I won't be joining the strike either.

Like others, I get frustrated by Kiva's decisions, especially over the last year.  I feel they mostly fall into two categories: (a) those that cause me added inconvenience and (b) those that are harmful to Kiva and could have an impact down the road on my ability to continue lending.

For (a) I'll just buck up.  For (b), it hasn't happened yet so I'll continue to give suggestions and add my voice to the discussions to try to turn things around.

I understand your frustration, but a strike is too much too soon, IMO.

John
Logged

Looking for serenity you have come to the monestary.
Looking for serenity I am leaving the monestary.
                                         Soen Nakagawa
tomviolence
Kiva Supporter
Movin' to Florida
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 334


A mile and a half on a bus takes a long time

View Profile
« Reply To This #4 on: October 14, 2009, 07:57:42 PM »

thanks you for reading and responding to my post. I certainly applaud your decision to continue to loan, after all, that is why we did join Kiva.

However, my concern is with the long term strategy, and survival of Kiva. In reading the post by cjp1973, they mention the blog by David Roodman which compares Kiva to the troubles save the children ran into, notably, popularity as the driving force. http://blogs.cgdev.org/open_book/2009/10/kiva-is-not-quite-what-it-seems.php

I think popularity as the goal of Kiva is the road to perdition, rather than salvation. If the path they see as becoming a billion dollar enterprise relies on popularity, rather than ethical, even treatment of borrowers, then I really don't want a part of it.

They are at a fork in the road here. Choosing the high road, working to fund even loans that are not "sexy" or popular, might not make them a giant organization, but helping those who may not be glamorous or photogenic is the harder and more valuable road to travel.

Right now they have unresolved issues in monitoring MFI's, collecting payments, running the website, answering customer service requests, dealing with international lenders, inventory management and paypal. Now is not the time to pretend they are so big they can expire loans as table crumbs at their feast of plenty.

Even if you continue to loan, I would ask you make a $1 paypal withdrawal to remind them that lenders should not be always last on their list of things to do.
Logged

"Famines will be famines, banquets will be banquets
Some spend winter in a palace, some spend it in blankets
Dont wag your fingers at them and turn to walk away
Dont shoot someone tomorrow that you can shoot today
Time to end the praying
Listen what they're saying"

The Housemartins - "Get up off your knees" - from "London 0 Hull 4"
David2051
Kiva Supporter
Evansville, IN
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1058



View Profile
« Reply To This #5 on: October 14, 2009, 10:01:21 PM »

Even if you continue to loan, I would ask you make a $1 paypal withdrawal to remind them that lenders should not be always last on their list of things to do.

Hmm, now there's an interesting idea!  That would get a lot of attention wouldn't it?    Angry   Didn't Gerard say much of the withdrawal process is handled manually? Undecided
Logged

Join Team Smile Train!  http://www.kiva.org/team/smile_train  :-)
“send a postcard and receive a postcard back from a random person somewhere in the world!” http://www.postcrossing.com/

Learn more about ovarian cancer. Educate for early detection.  http://ovariancancerin.org/

Be a bone marrow donor, save a life.  http://bit.ly/4Amit
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Bookmark This  |  E-Mail This  |  Print It  
 
Jump to:  

 
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Thanks to PixelSlot
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.148 seconds with 24 queries.