A Mostly Comprehensive Guide to the Kiva and Donor Illusion Debate

[Guest]

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[waywardcats]

Tim Ogden at Philanthropy Action has posted A Mostly Comprehensive Guide to the Kiva and Donor Illusion Debate

The posts and comments have been flying fast and furious over the issue of Kiva specifically and the issues of transparency and donors demands for illusion. For those who haven’t been able to keep up, I thought it would be helpful to provide a mostly comprehensive guide to the various posts. I’ll try to keep it updated when/if more is added. If I’ve missed anything, please add it in the comments.

Edited to fix link

[TheTatiana]

I know I for my part was somewhat miffed at being characterized (as a lender) as someone who was asking, nay demanding, to be lied to.  I don't see myself that way at all.  I like the idea of helping specific businesses of my choosing, and don't think it's entirely illusory that I'm indeed doing just that.  The MFIs clearly lend the money to individual entrepreneurs in full expectation that they're going to be able to fund those loans on kiva.  Dollars are fungible.

I think of it like this:  The MFIs temporarily front the money to the borrowers on our behalf in advance, to save time and travel.  Then we are the ones who do the actual lending.

[AccountAbility]

"The posts and comments have been flying fast and furious..."

Give me a break. This guy [EDIT: Tim Ogden] is almost singlehandedly trying to start the perfect storm.  There are more comments and posts here on Kiva Friends in a day than all the comments he's gotten. 

At least at Kiva Friends the collective impression has some perspective due to the various Friends posting.

Dan

EDIT: Again to try to tie this all together also see thread at:

http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,4419.msg70211.html#msg70211

[timothyogden]

Dan

you might note that the line you quote says "posts and comments" and that the list it precedes includes links to the various posts and comments made around the web. Of the 21 posts linked from the article 18 are from other sites. Many of those posts have a number of comments as well.

So "fast and furious" may have been overstating the issue, but I am certainly not the only person interested in or commenting on these issues.

TheTatiana

I'm glad you don't feel lied to or misled. As I've said in all the posts, the problem is not just that donors want person-to-person connections but that they punish nonprofits who do their best to provide a feeling of connection that donors want when a truly direct connection would in fact be a bad idea.

Tim

[TheTatiana]

Maybe I just disagree that a truly direct connection is always a bad idea.  I think it's quite possible for the charitable organization to give donors exactly what they say they're giving, with no lying or fudging involved. 

If what you're saying is that donors will fund one thing more than another, then that's perfectly true but is their choice of what best to do with the money under their stewardship.  If the NGO thinks they know better than the donors do what should be done with the donors money then that's the problem in itself, isn't it?

[wthepoo]

Confusion on Where Money Lent via Kiva Goes

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/business/global/09kiva.html?_r=4

Surprisingly ill-researched and tabloid-like take on it, I thought. Especially they failed to point out that - unlike with the other cited examples - there is a personal connection insofar as lenders are taking on the default risk of individual entrepreneurs (at least in theory and in some cases, where the MFI does not choose to cover that risk).

Especially the headline borders on the libellous IMHO.

Best wishes,
Wolfgang.

[tomviolence]

if you go to http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=kiva, it is the first article listed. The direct link looks ofr a password. Googel news lists other recent news articles, including one from the San Jose Mercury News, which mentions a Kiva billboard.

pretty much a rehash what had been written before, with no real depth. As they say, there is no such thing as bad publicity, and perhaps kiva.org will get a few more clicks.