Kiva Withdrawals Sent Twice

[Guest]

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[hejustlaughs]

Here's the list of transactions recently with Kiva.

Sept 29th. Withdrawal Requested 327.08
Oct 5th Withdrawal Processed 327.08

Oct 6th Withdrawal Requested 116.46
Oct 12th Withdrawal Processed 116.46

Oct 16th Withdrawal Processed 116.46
Oct 16th Withdrawal Processed 327.08

I then receive an e-mail from Ali Carroll:

We just found that the withdrawal payments Kiva sent today had already been processed and sent out to you earlier this month. When you receive today’s withdrawal payment in your PayPal account, we ask that you please refund that credit to Kiva by clicking the ‘Refund’ button.

If you have any questions about this, please don’t hesitate to contact me. We apologize for the inconvenience this error may cause you.

I received this e-mail twice because of those two erroneous transactions.

I respond to the e-mail 4 days later on October 21st (I didn't notice it in my inbox) and promptly issued a refund to Kiva for both erroneous withdrawals.

Then I log in today (Oct 27th) and noticed that on October 23rd in what I believe to be an attempt to correct the situation two withdrawals were processed for $116.46 and $327.08 leaving my Kiva balance in the negative. This means I'm out $443.54 because I refunded the transactions Ali requested!

I sent another e-mail out and if Ali doesn't respond I figure I will have to start calling Kiva?

[RichardF]

What a coincidence! 

Today, I received six separate payments that amounted to 20% of my withdraw request from this round's repayments.  ...

Here's an update on my "unusual" Kiva Credits withdrawal activity this month, aka, ...

"Your Kiva Withdrawal Was Sent Twice!"


From: Me

I noticed in my spam blocker your four 10/16 messages titled, Your Kiva Withdrawal Was Sent Twice! Unfortunately, the message itself was deleted when it was blocked. I've now added your email address to my address book, so any new messages should come through okay.


From: Kiva Staffer

I've copied the original email I sent on Friday, October 16 below. It looks like you received six payments on 10/16, and four of those were duplicate payments: $X.XX...

Begin original message:

We just found that the withdrawal payments Kiva sent today had already been processed and sent out to you earlier this month. When you receive today's withdrawal payment in your PayPal account, we ask that you please refund that credit to Kiva by clicking the "Refund" button.

If you have any questions about this, please don't hesitate to contact me. We apologize for the inconvenience this error may cause you.


From: Me

Not surprisingly, those funds already have been removed from my PayPal account. How would you like to proceed from here?


From: Kiva Staffer

If you could add the full amount of the four duplicate payments to your Kiva account as Kiva credit, we will debit your account for the total of the duplicate payments - $XX.XX.

You can add Kiva Credit to your Kiva account by following these steps: ...


From: Me

I have a counterproposal. As it turns out, Kiva still owes me money. Here is a summary of the applicable activity to date on this issue.

[Color-coded activity spreadsheet goes here]

Between 9/17 and 10/18, I made eight Withdrawal Requests for a total of $XXX.XX. During this period, Kiva made 11 payments to my PayPal account for a total of $XX.XX. Of these 11 payments, six were originals that matched a specific withdrawal request, four were duplicates of one of the original payments, and one did not match any withdrawal request amount. Thus, the net balance due from Kiva to me is $XXX.XX.


Date: 10/24
From: Me

This morning, I found four withdrawal requests in my Kiva account.  These requests were for the already duplicated repayments of...  I made none of these requests!  Today, I also received a repayment for an entrepreneur.  This leaves my Kiva Credit Balance at ($30.96).

Please apprise me of Kiva's steps to resolve this unfolding issue as soon as possible.


Date: 10/27
From: Kiva Staffer

We haven't sent any of the withdrawal payments for requests that were made after 10/14/2009 yet, so the inconsistencies you see should be cleared up once those payments are sent.


Date: 10/27
From: Me

I am afraid that I don't share your assessment that all inconsistencies shown in the activities spreadsheet should be cleared up once the post-10/14 requested payments are sent.  The table you reference shows four types of color-coded transactions.  I'll comment on each of them in turn.

• The GREEN Withdrawal Requests and PayPal deposits show matched transactions.  There are no problems here.
• The YELLOW Withdrawal Requests after 10/14 are pending payments and are the ones you mentioned should be cleared up once the corresponding PayPal deposits are made.
• The BLUE PayPal deposit does NOT match any Withdrawal Request I can find that was made by me.  Perhaps this amount was requested by someone else.  In any event, please confirm the source of the request for this payment to me.
• The ROSE PayPal deposits and "Withdrawal Requests" are problematic from a documentation perspective. The rose deposits were duplicates of the green deposits.  What I see as being most problematic here is that Kiva describing the transaction as a "Withdrawal Request" - "User requested withdrawal to [my PayPal account]" is incorrect.  The rose requests were not made by me.  As I noted in my previous message, I assume they were initiated by Kiva, although I still have not received any confirmation to that effect.  If this is true, please confirm.

[P, B and J]

What the heck was going on in the Kiva system on October 16??  Both of you had those strange things on the same date.  Me thinks I should go check my 'My Credits'....  This is worrisome, especially if Kiva keeps saying you owe them, when there is some other error/issue at hand.    Sheesh, not good

[waywardcats]

Then I log in today (Oct 27th) and noticed that on October 23rd in what I believe to be an attempt to correct the situation two withdrawals were processed for $116.46 and $327.08 leaving my Kiva balance in the negative. This means I'm out $443.54 because I refunded the transactions Ali requested!

I had a similar experience in that I had a withdrawal that was duplicated.  I refunded the Paypal payment after verifying that the payment was a duplicate.  However, my experience differed in that on October 23rd I had a set of offsetting entries in my Kiva Credit transactions.

 ($)     Oct 23, 2009 6:13pm     Withdrawal Request     User requested withdrawal to xxx
$    Oct 23, 2009 6:13pm    Withdrawal Cancel    Withdrawal to xxx canceled by Paypal

When queried, the response from Kiva was

Thanks so much for your email. Our engineers ran a script to reverse all of the
duplicate withdrawal payments in our system, and that script caused emails to be sent
out to each lender - one saying they had requested a withdrawal and another saying
the withdrawal had been canceled. Because you refunded the duplicate withdrawal to
Kiva, your account balance shouldn't change.

Since my credit balance had indeed not changed, I was satisfied and did not think any more of it.  I am curious now as to why different accounts were affected differently.  It seems to me that your account should also have received the withdrawal canceled email and Kiva Credit entry.

-Kerry-

[P, B and J]

Kerry did they tell you when they ran that "script to reverse all of the
duplicate withdrawal payments"?  Just curious.  I checked my own transactions and I haven't seen anything strange or confusing in the last little while (or at least, nothing I've noticed yet).  I made a withdrawal on the 18th.  Never received any sort of emails like you all seem to have gotten.

[Dagfinn]

I think indeed they are struggling and right now if I go to My credit I am plus 150,- while the account shows 0,- (which I think is correct) and the 950,- withdrawal from the 16.th is nowhere - all I know they told it was to be transferred me last week.

For sure it is not a CPA running this, keeping themselves with more than one ledger - or 

- Dagfinn A

[hejustlaughs]

At least they respond to your e-mails Richard.

Right now I can't even lend because my Kiva balance is in the negative. I wish they'd e-mail to say they were doing this so I wouldn't need to refund the money.

[michael]

Wow, I was checking in to see if anyone else besides me had not received their requested withdrawals from 10/16.... perhaps it is just as well I have not.  Just the same, I guess I had better start spamming the contactus button.

[David2051]

I've still not received my requested money from the 16th...

[waywardcats]

Kerry did they tell you when they ran that "script to reverse all of the
duplicate withdrawal payments"?  Just curious.  I checked my own transactions and I haven't seen anything strange or confusing in the last little while (or at least, nothing I've noticed yet).  I made a withdrawal on the 18th.  Never received any sort of emails like you all seem to have gotten.

The emails and the transactions are all dated October 23rd Jackie, so my understanding is that this is the date they ran the script.  I guess, though I do not know for sure, that Kiva is trying to clean up this issue before moving on to new withdrawal requests.  I also have a later request outstanding which they verified for me is still pending.

-Kerry-