Confusion on Where Money Lent via Kiva Goes - NYT reactions & fall-out linkspam

[Guest]

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[David2051]

I just noticed that the loan pages have changed substantially to clarify predisbursal and other details such as default protection.  Lot's of "Learn more" links. 

[Diane R]

Yes, and the "PLACE ORDER" button has changed to "PAY NOW", and the names of group members are now listed below the photo, and there's a teensy glitch such that on the right where it says how much is left to fund, a loan I'm on with 22 days remaining says "expires in minutes".

--Diane.

[wthepoo]

I just noticed that the loan pages have changed substantially to clarify predisbursal ...

Yes, noticed it, too.

Three problems I noticed so far:

1. I think it's getting a little too crowded with information, also I don't think it has been fortunate to move the crucial loan information from the right to the top of the left column or integrate them into the grey box (disbursal and especially listed dates).

2. The predisbursal info is also showing by loans that are not (yet) predisbursed:

for example:

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=151414&_tpos=7&_tpg=1

disbursal date: December 29, 2009, and still "Your funds will be used to backfill this loan."

(which might be correct if the loan gets funded after Dec 15 [which won't be possible as it should expire before that, regardless of what the timer is saying] because then Aqroinvest won't receive the funds before Dec 29, but it's at least not sure yet)

3. The expiration timer is seriously and way off.

In the loan above: Listed November 10, expires in 13 days?! (and not showing red...)

Here: http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=158260&_tpos=8&_tpg=1

it's the other way round: Listed December 1, expires in 4 days?! (EDIT: now changed to: "in minutes")



Best wishes,
Wolfgang.

[David2051]

Is Kiva using volunteer programmers?  Cause I would seriously get fired for half (a tenth?) of these issues...
    

[cats]

Is Kiva using volunteer programmers?  Cause I would seriously get fired for half (a tenth?) of these issues...
    

I'm pretty sure the concept is to test the change before it goes live - unless maybe we're all beta testers! :-)

--Nancy

[waywardcats]

The conversation relating to the use of the term backfill on Kiva which was previously in this thread has been placed into a new topic which you can find here.

-Kerry-

[waywardcats]

Article in the New York Times Money section, published December 25, 2009 By Ron Lieber

Doing Good by Paying Forward
Discusses Kiva, Microplace, Donors Choose, Modest Needs and others.  Here is the Kiva section only:

This fall, Kiva, one of the leading organizations in a niche that includes others like DonorsChoose and the eBay-owned MicroPlace, came under fire in a blog post by a microfinance researcher named David Roodman. He took Kiva to task for inaccurate information on its Web site about how the loans, made to entrepreneurs in the developing world by its users, actually worked.

Many of those business owners, it turned out, had received their money already; they weren’t left waiting to, say, repair their motorcycle taxis until enough Americans pitched in with $20 loans.

Kiva has since changed its site to reflect this reality more accurately. But the incident poses a question about other organizations that try to provide a direct connection between you and the beneficiaries of your donations or investments: can any of them truly deliver on the promise that many of them imply — that your dollars will go to the particular people or project leader you’ve picked out?

This week, I put that question to some of the leading organizations in this niche. Here’s what they had to say.

KIVA When you sign up to be a lender at Kiva, your money does not go directly to the entrepreneurs whose requests appear on the Web site. Instead, a microfinance institution administers the actual loan.

Often, these Kiva partners engage in what a Kiva founder, Matt Flannery, refers to as “pre-disbursals.” In plain English, that means that borrowers get their loans before their appeals appear on Kiva’s site. So what happens to your money if you lend it through Kiva and direct it toward a particular project? It’s often used, according to the site, to “backfill” the money that Kiva’s local partners have already lent.

This suggests that what Kiva users are really doing is financing the microfinance institutions themselves and not individual entrepreneurs. Kiva argues, however, that any confusion disappears come repayment time.

Whether you get your money back later will depend on whether the people to whom you directed your money repay it. If they don’t, you’ll get nothing unless the local microfinance partner makes good on the loan to stay in Kiva and its users’ good graces.

[Sengbe Pieh]

Many of those business owners, it turned out, had received their money already; they weren’t left waiting to, say, repair their motorcycle taxis until enough Americans pitched in with $20 loans.

Whenever I see inaccuracies like this it calls into question the credibility of both the entire article & the author. How thorough can the research have been, what kind of fact checking was done, if the author doesn't know that:

a) Kiva loans are made in $25 increments

and

b) the Number of countries represented by Kiva Lenders (is) 188 (figure taken directly from the Kiva Press Center >> Facts & Statistics - http://www.kiva.org/about/facts/ )

Looks like Ron Lieber is confused about more than just where the money goes.
        

[YowieFreak]

a) Kiva loans are made in $25 increments

The author may have been misled by the recent post by Adam Preston on the KivaFellows' blog, which originally said "In my mind I envisioned a women living in a grass hut only needing my $20 loan to start a business to finally lift herself out of poverty".

The post has subsequently been changed to say "$25"  (although "women" hasn't been changed to "woman" yet), but Google's cache still shows the original version.

[David2051]

I'm not sure where to post this, but thought people might want to be aware of this...

I just got a journal update on one of my loans  http://www.kiva.org/lend/172687  as follows:

Location: Kurunagala, Lakesidewatte, Code 2042, Sri Lanka

    Dear Lenders,

    Greetings from Sri Lanka. In addition to reporting the February repayments for this group loan, we have an update for one of Group 3's members.

    Kanthi Ranaweerage's loan was pre-listed on the Kiva website on Feb 4th but unfortunately her 15,000 LKR portion of the group loan was not disbursed, as scheduled. Kanthi had an emergency and had to go to the hospital which prevented her from taking this loan as a member of this small group. Because the other members of the group were able to take the loans, we are choosing to only refund Kanthi's portion of this loan.

    We apologize for any inconvenience we have caused. We have put strong systems in place to ensure that from this point forward, only loans that have already been disbursed will be posted to the Kiva website.

    Thank you for your understanding and please let us know if there are any questions!


Posted by Brian Kelly from Kurunagala, Lakesidewatte, Code 2042, Sri Lanka
Mar 12, 2010

I had not considered this reason for predisbursing loans before, but I remember some people commenting that they sought out loans that had not already been disbursed to strengthen the person to person connection.  I thought some people might want to let their feelings be known.  I did mention this in a comment on the journal update.