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Author Topic: Kiva is wrong!  (Read 3343 times)
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AccountAbility
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« Reply To This #20 on: March 21, 2010, 10:12:43 PM »


Another post you might find interesting:http://blogs.cgdev.org/open_book/2009/10/kiva-is-not-quite-what-it-seems.php
I believe Kiva changed their marketing somewhat after this - but not what they do.

Your choice is: do you provide finance - or do you finance guidance?

That blog by David Rodman has been the subject of another thread here--which received a lot of insightful posts, some of which pointing out HIS misunderstandings.  The change on Kiva that resulted from that exchange was to clearly state the timing of the various components of Kiva lenders providing monies to ultimate borrowers.

I would invite you to spend a little time researching Kiva's Field Partners, many of which are non-profit organizations with a broad array of services to help alleviate poverty.  While most of them are not of the size or in the position to directly improve infrastructure or government efficiencies, they nevertheless demonstrate that your "either/or" question many times is answered by "both/and" organizations.  And Kiva's fund has helped these organizations in many different ways.   

A number of Kiva lenders have responded here about how they view Kiva as but one small part of an overall approach to world poverty.  Riverink, you have amply shown that your view of Kiva is fairly negative.  Can you suggest what Kiva could do to move in the right direction?

Dan
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riverink
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« Reply To This #21 on: March 21, 2010, 11:00:53 PM »

No I couldn't - I am not here arguing how Kiva should improve - I'm saying the whole idea is fundamentally flawed.

All the replies go on the line of how Kiva is "only part of a broader approach" or some start listing obvious positives like "if a person with no chance get's a chance it's a good thing" which is true of anything in the universe including a Kiva loan.. but you're still just funding banks - and those banks will bend either which way it takes to keep that money coming.

You ever wonder how come all the Kiva MFI's have such amazingly good deliquency rates?
Because if they don't then they won't get any more cash from Kiva lenders.
You are dealing with businesses who are making money out of lending to people here - but you describe all these MFIs as if they were the second coming - now excuse me for being cynical once again, but when was the last time you saw a bank actually really do some good - apart from some PR stunt to get more people to give them more money so they can make more money.

I am not saying that everything that Kiva does or that any MFI does is bad - I am sure you could list positive stories in their thousands - the point is you have to ask yourself why you can only list positive stories and if you would ever in a blue moon hear about any negative stories from an MFI looking to get more funds.

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waywardcats
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« Reply To This #22 on: March 22, 2010, 11:08:20 AM »

No I couldn't - I am not here arguing how Kiva should improve - I'm saying the whole idea is fundamentally flawed.

All the replies go on the line of how Kiva is "only part of a broader approach" or some start listing obvious positives like "if a person with no chance get's a chance it's a good thing" which is true of anything in the universe including a Kiva loan.. but you're still just funding banks - and those banks will bend either which way it takes to keep that money coming.

You ever wonder how come all the Kiva MFI's have such amazingly good deliquency rates?
Because if they don't then they won't get any more cash from Kiva lenders.
You are dealing with businesses who are making money out of lending to people here - but you describe all these MFIs as if they were the second coming - now excuse me for being cynical once again, but when was the last time you saw a bank actually really do some good - apart from some PR stunt to get more people to give them more money so they can make more money.

I am not saying that everything that Kiva does or that any MFI does is bad - I am sure you could list positive stories in their thousands - the point is you have to ask yourself why you can only list positive stories and if you would ever in a blue moon hear about any negative stories from an MFI looking to get more funds.


There are many points to be responded to here, I will only address this one.

Quote
but you're still just funding banks

This is not true.  Microfinance institutions are more than banks, they offer a number of services that banks do not offer because of their target clientele.  Here are just a few examples:

Pro Mujer, Bolivia:  Pro Mujer provides an alternative delivery system for its credit services, the group oriented communal banks which appeals to women traditionally accustomed to working in community groups. Secondly, Pro Mujer offers integrated credit and training services which few other organizations offer.

WAGES, Togo: With the hope of empowering its clients, WAGES offers various training programs. Program topics include: business administration, savings management, credit management, revenue management, marketing, accounting, basic literacy, AIDS and malaria awareness, advocacy, and more.

CCT, Philippines: In addition to CCT, the Center for Community Transformation operates training and development programs, clinics and disaster relief operations. CCT also runs a generic pharmaceutical distribution business called Tindahan Para Sa Bayan which allows micro entrepreneurs to access low cost medicine while funneling any extra income to social service projects.  As a cooperative, its clients are its co-owners and a large portion (70%) of the profits is returned to its client-members in the form of dividends and patronage refunds. 

If you research the Kiva Field Partners available to make loans through, you will find many, many more examples of training programs and services that these MFIs provide to their clients.  You will also see that some are non-profit.  These are not just banks, and their missions and range of services are as varied as the clientele they serve. 

-Kerry-


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"Our daughters can contribute just as much to society as our sons, and our common prosperity will be advanced by allowing all humanity - men and women - to reach their full potential. I do not believe that women must make the same choices as men in order to be equal, and I respect those women who choose to live their lives in traditional roles. But it should be their choice. That is why the United States will partner with any Muslim-majority country to support expanded literacy for girls, and to help young women pursue employment through micro-financing that helps people live their dreams." - President Barack Obama, June 4, 2009
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