Feedback on Donations tests

[Guest]

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[JohnAtKiva]

Kiva has been running some tests on different approaches to donations in the checkout process.  There's been some strong feedback posted here, and I want to make sure we collected it in one place to share with the donations team.

I spoke to the donations team and user feedback is a big element of the test, and will be factored into any final decisions here.  So, PLEASE WEIGH IN EARLY AND OFTEN!

A few quick notes:

1) My apologies for not alerting you guys to the donation tests ahead of time.  I had heard they were in the works, but didn't think they were coming out for a while.  As I get up to speed more at Kiva, I'll be better able to keep you guys in the loop on stuff like this.

2) Most users are not affected by the donation tests.  Only a small segment of the Kiva users is affected (sorry Mona!!).

There's been a fair amount of feedback posted elsewhere - I've tried to copy and paste most of it into this post, so it's all in one place (I left out the posts describing the tests, and focused on the ones giving feedback).  If I missed one, please help copy and paste it over - thanks.

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback here! 

John @ Kiva

FROM MONA

Anyone having made a loan today? Seems they have changed the procedure - and it made me nearly end up with making a donation. The decision if you want to donate to Kiva or not is no longer a step of its own but included into the checking out process. And it is set to 3.75%. I nearly overlook it and only wondered on the amount I saw in the next step. And so I went back to my basket to take it off (sorry, still not tax deductible in Germany). To set the donation to 0 you have there a scroll bar as usual. But it does not just change it. You have to confirm first in a new pop up window that you really want to change it.

I can understand of course that Kiva needs money to pay for its operational costs. But I have to admit that I prefer how it was before - making the donation a conscious step and not one that can be rather easily overlooked. 

Sigh, for one short day yesterday all was back to normal with my "Donate to Kiva" features during check out. But it seems someone is still working on this and I am still part of this test... And no, I also do not like the new way it looks like and has to be handled, especially as the "edit" button for the donation contribution got even tinier now. Here it is:

I have to admit that this is starting to drive me crazy ...  Even if this is only applied to some loans as you say, John, it somehow sticks with me. And in addition I do not only have this new feature, but I also have it each day in a different layout. Here is the latest one I got.

Sometimes you have a drop down menu to change, sometimes not. One day you have to click on "Edit", sometimes on other buttons. Sometimes you change your donations percentage by clicking on "Save", the next time on "Cancel" or whatever it was yesterday ...

Can I please just get back to lending without having to watch each step I am doing as they are constantly changing the process???

Don't get me wrong. I am always happy to help. But I think it might be better to ask people if they would like to participate and - most of all - give them the possibility for a structured feedback. This random approach seems a bit too random for me ... And as the features are also changing so fast, I am also not sure if I will be able to tell you in some days still which version I liked less ...

If you want to give them a fast feedback from me, here are the things I do not like about the new way:

- The donation is too hidden now so people can easily overlook it. I guess that would make some people rather angry if they realize it too late. And this is not a good starting point for hoping for a next loan and/or donation.

- Way too much clicks to get rid of the donation if you want to change it.

- The pop up window is a nuisance for me as I normally know very well what I want to do and so, yes, I am sure.
 
- I also do not like that the way this all is displayed as it seems to be trying to evoke my bad conscience - especially the version that showed that lenders donate on average donate $9 (!!!). A number I absolutely do not believe btw taking the average number of loans per lender into account ...

And as criticizing is easy, but making it better is hard, here come some proposal on how I personally would prefer things: Make the donation process so that people get a fair chance to realize what they are doing. And if they want to change the default settings, make it easy for them to do so. If technically possible - why not make the donation percentage an individual adjustment that is saved within the lender settings (like the decision if I want to get team messages or not)? Someone like me who - sorry to say, but that's how it is - never donates because of tax reasons is rather likely to stick with this decision even if it would need 10 pop up windows and 20 clicks  to change it. And I am rather sure that most people either want to not donate or donate always the same percentage, so why not spare them just all this clicking?  

FROM RICHARDF

Well, I just made a loan and Kiva "spammed" me (that's just an analogy) at least four times!!!

First, it added a donation item to My Basket.

Second, when I removed it, Kiva threw a pop-up at me with the donation thrown back in.  Then I had to remove the donation again!!!

Third, when I returned from my double-credit-card-blocking PayPal account (not officially counted against Kiva, but it is under review), I had to get rid of another pop-up harassing me to splatter my private business all over the Internet via Facebook!!!

Fourth, the page behind the pop-up was full of ways to help me spam anyone I could think of to partake in this wonderful lending experience.

Oh, by the way, a little box in the corner confirmed my loan with a tiny link back to it.

Maybe we should start a topic on the most ways in one loan Kiva has tried to drive away lenders by annoying them to distraction...

FROM SKIMMIS

I always think it is a kind aof greedy to set the default donation to 15% when average is supposed to be 9%.
I dont know Kiva actual operational costs
Other similar welfare organisations i have seen keeps the operational cost to under 10%

Myselves i have currency losss every time i put money into kiva , it costs money to exchange to dollar.
And no tax return here, so when relending i always go for donating zero.
Lol , and i have donated also by accident by clicking to fast trough the process.
Anyway i guess Kiva is having bigger income from interest from funds sitting in or intransfer trough Kivas account.

Maybee more neutral information about actual operational costs ?
Default donation amount: If the IP is outside USA, set a lower default amount due to no tax return ?

FROM CARIEN

Almost every day it is different already made a few times a mistake and that's something I don't like. I donate once a month a certain amount at that is the way I would like it to stay. I was happy it was back to normal yesterday today I almost made the same mistake again

FROM ACCOUNTABILITY

Haven't seen the separate post yet, so let me add my two cents.  If Kiva wants some sampling, can't they apply it per lender rather than per loan?  That way a lender (particularly a frequent lender) will not get whipsawed from loan to loan.

Dan

FROM PATRICIA SF

Hi John,

I know you planned later to set up a thread for feedback regarding these POSSIBLE new checkout features, but I was urged by several friends and community folks to provide you with feedback now. 

These are good folks who most likely represent your average Kiva lender, and they were adamant about having their voices heard.

Mona articulated beautifully, with her usual tact and grace, how they feel about these possible new checkout features.  And to be honest, I don't care for them either. 

Here are the words they used to describe their experience when checking out with these new features in place:

bullying
rudeness
bad manners

It took months to get these folks and community folks on board to loan on Kiva, but it's getting more and more difficult to keep them active with Kiva due to the currency risk issue, Kiva's cockfighting stance, and most importantly, Kiva's lack of communication to the lenders.

Thank you for everything you've done and are trying to do.  I'm sorry to relay this unpleasant feedback.

Patricia

FROM DAVID2051

Donation preferences really need to be set at the profile level.  I never intend to donate on a per loan basis as when I make charitable donations I turn it in to my employer for a company match, and I cannot do that on a per loan basis.  I suppose per loan is the only option for someone that is making their first loan, but for regular lenders it's a hassle, and hassles don't encourage donations.  I think happier Kiva lenders make more donations, but I have not done a formal study of that.   

[Skimmis]

When logging into kiva first time after change, the lender could get a question/ choice:

Set donating preferences in % for lending  (changeable during lending)
Set monthly donate amount (date 15 each month)  (maybee also quarter/year?)
Set montly transfer from creditcard to kiva on th 15?
Set donate all to kiva after long non activity. (forced to choose setting for long time of non activity)

With possibility to choose several options.

it could also bee possible here :
https://www.kiva.org/portfolio/donations
to just doante to kiva without lending


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added:
with the new non activity politics, all lenders could/should get a question/ friendly reminder every time when logging on (until they have selected)
and be asked if they wanted to donate the money if they have long period of inactivity.

[iampaul]

I encountered only one of the new test donation layouts and during only a single session. The donation line was preset for $3.75 and placed in the basket in a manner that made it, IMHO, deceptively similar to the loan I had selected. I almost didn't notice it before I clicked back out of the basket to look for another loan. When I did add a second loan, the donation line was still there in the basket as well and the amount had been upped to $7.50. I removed the donation before I checked out.

As Mona noted, this scheme easily could have been overlooked by me and resulted in an "accidental" donation which to me is NOT the way to do it. No, I don't donate every time for a number of reasons. I have on some other occasions donated more than the 15%, also for reasons of my own. A donation line designed to "sneak" through with minimal notice might average out these two, but to me it is just annoying. The donation section of the checkout should be clearly indicated as such, as it has been before this.

If the reason Kiva is investigating the change is to try to raise the level of donations, perhaps they should just do a better job of telling potential donors why they feel they need more. However, they should also be sure to listen to why some are choosing not to donate or to donate in other ways and address those concerns - such as larger but less frequent amounts. I'm hesitant to suggest the idea of a "premium membership" approach for those who wish to donate an annual amount or some such, but maybe the option of a streamlined checkout that bypasses the normal donation plea for those who do?

Paul

[Mona]

New day, new layout ...This version has the advantage to be a bit more visible than the others on the basket side, but it takes for my personal taste still too many clicks to take it off.

The bar that shows in the current pop up window how far away Kiva is from covering its costs today is an interesting idea, so why not put it into a different part of the homepage? If it would not be included into the loan check out process the "pressing" way it is now, I think it might be a good way to get people into donating. At least as long as the bar is lower than 100%. 

[Patricia SF]

Kiva has been running some tests on different approaches to donations in the checkout process.  There's been some strong feedback posted here, and I want to make sure we collected it in one place to share with the donations team.

I spoke to the donations team and user feedback is a big element of the test, and will be factored into any final decisions here.  So, PLEASE WEIGH IN EARLY AND OFTEN!
 
2) Most users are not affected by the donation tests.  Only a small segment of the Kiva users is affected (sorry Mona!!).

Hi John,

Here are some thoughts. . .

The Kiva donations team of course would like to get as much user feedback as possible, and most users have NOT been exposed to the POSSIBLE new checkout features.  For example, how many folks here on Kiva Friends have "experienced" the possible new checkout features?  It doesn't appear to be a whole lot.

And also, I'm wondering how many non-Kiva Friends folks who have been exposed to the possible new checkout features didn't like it, but didn't contact Kiva to complain?  In the case of my friends and community folks, they urged me to say something yesterday, which I did post on their behalf as well as also chiming in.   

So could you perhaps post dummy tests of the different versions here so those who frequent this board, and who wish to, can have the opportunity to test drive them and provide valuable feedback?  As you can see, there's a whole bunch of sharp minds and passionate folks here, and they can absolutely help provide Kiva with great useful feedback!

Thank you.

Patricia

      

  

[JohnAtKiva]

So could you perhaps post dummy tests of the different versions here so those who frequent this board, and who wish to, can have the opportunity to test drive them and provide valuable feedback?  As you can see, there's a whole bunch of sharp minds and passionate folks here, and they can absolutely help provide Kiva with great useful feedback!

This is a neat idea!  Ideally it could be structured in such a way that any dummy accounts don't throw off the data collection from the test.

I'll forward this idea onto the donations team today...  thanks Patricia!

[Diane R]

A couple more points to consider....

I have set up a payroll deduction at work, made possible through my employer.  An amount of my choice is deducted from my pay twice a month, with monthly checks sent to Kiva (I assume: Kiva has never acknowledged these contributions, but I know other charitable deductions my employer sends from my payroll deductions to other organizations do arrive, so I assume Kiva gets theirs also).  I consider this payroll deduction to be my Kiva donation method: I almost never make additional donations through the website.  (When I do, it's a one-off lump-sum donation.)  It's a minor annoyance now to set the donation drop-down to zero each time I lend, but I've learned to treat it as just another step in the process.  If the process becomes more onerous, with pop-ups and sliders or hidden donations appearing without warning in my checkout page, I will find it much more troubling.  I'd prefer the ability to set my "donation type preference" if you're going to add further levels of inconvenience to the donation process.  Maybe outside donations (such as via payroll deduction) should be taken into account somehow and tied to our lender profile, to "cover" some number of loans? 

On a related note, I'll add that one thing that completely annoys me about DonorsChoose, in which many KFs also participate, is their "Optional Donation" sham.  They say they give you the "option" to contribute to their costs, but in reality they don't consider the project funded until the "optional" donation is fully covered.  So usually, the last couple-few people who close out the project's funding are in fact paying DonorsChoose for their "optional" donation, rather than actually contributing to the project costs.  Please don't turn Kiva lending into this sort of sham by deciding to make contributions "optional" in this way when lending, it would be very disappointing.

--Diane.

[cjp1973]

On a related note, I'll add that one thing that completely annoys me about DonorsChoose, in which many KFs also participate, is their "Optional Donation" sham.  They say they give you the "option" to contribute to their costs, but in reality they don't consider the project funded until the "optional" donation is fully covered.  So usually, the last couple-few people who close out the project's funding are in fact paying DonorsChoose for their "optional" donation, rather than actually contributing to the project costs.  Please don't turn Kiva lending into this sort of sham by deciding to make contributions "optional" in this way when lending, it would be very disappointing.

Funny that you mention this.  I have discussed this 3 times this week.  While I think many people overlook it, you can opt out of the 18% optional donation on the check out page.  But it will and does fund the project,  even if no one who donates to the project includes the 18%.  I have tried it.  I have asked several times about this, and their feedback was positive to this way of doing it. 
Not that I want to see Kiva go to this.  I would love to see a setting I could set my account to, so I didn't get the drop down box every time I checked out.

[AccountAbility]

.... I'm hesitant to suggest the idea of a "premium membership" approach for those who wish to donate an annual amount or some such, but maybe the option of a streamlined checkout that bypasses the normal donation plea for those who do?

Paul

You mean like the premium version comes with no advertising...er solicitations?

Dan

P.S. I would love to see the screen shots since I haven't had the "opportunity" to see these new ideas.  On two loans  I did notice that my browser blocked a pop up, but as usual I ignored it.

[Mona]

Hi John! Sorry to report only negative things, but here is another thing that annoys me: If you have changed the donation percentage for a loan it does no "stick" permanently. E. g. when you decide later that you want to change the team you are making the loan for after having changed the donation parameters and leaving the basket page by pressing continue and go then back to change e.g. the team, the default settings are back in place so you have to change them another time.