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Author Topic: Are Kiva's spam controls what they should be?  (Read 1716 times)
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David2051
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Evansville, IN
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« on: August 18, 2010, 05:55:31 PM »

I created a new team recently, to raise awareness of cleft lips and palates and the work of Smile Train to provide free surgeries for affected families that cannot afford surgeries on their own.  If you haven't already, maybe you would like to take a look and consider joining!    http://www.kiva.org/team/smile_train  :-)

I was very excited that two of the donor relations staff at Smile Train accepted my invitation to sign up with Kiva and join the team.  After reassuring them that we did not expect Smile Train to repay our Kiva loans they did join up and I encouraged them to introduce themselves to the team and participate in the team messages. 

That is when I first learned that Kiva considers every Kiva user to be a spammer unless and until they have made a loan!  When they went to the team page, these staff members at Smile Train were presented with the following message: 

Quote
In order to reduce SPAM and solicitations, we have limited posting on this message board to users who have made loans.  Luckily, you can make a loan now.

Well, I was embarrassed to say the very least.  After frantically communicating with contactus the best solution to be found was sending them gift certificates.

I would like to propose that this spam filter system be enhanced a bit.  These new Kiva members were both invites of mine, so they appear on my lender page.  It seems that in the case of accepted invites, the "reputation" of the inviter could be used to vouch for the invitee.  The following reputation metrics should be easy to verify.

  • Length of Kiva membership.  (Since December 30, 2007 in my case.)
  • Number of loans.  (Well over 700 in my case.)
  • Number of accepted invites.  (I had 7 prior to these two, none of which were spammers.) 
  • Number of teams or team messages sent. (I'm on 23 teams now, no telling how many messages sent.)
  • Being a team captain.  (I captain two teams with 400+ members.) 

I think it would be relatively simple using any of these metrics for the system to figure out that I am not a spammer and my invitees are probably not spammers. 

Another option that would work as well for non-invitees would be an override function so the team captain could vouch for the new member.  Instead of the "you must be a spammer" message, they could be presented with a button to request full team access which would send me a message I could act upon to confirm their legitimacy.

Another anti-spam measure which I have not been affected by is the daily lender messages limit.  Evidently if you send 25 messages a day you must be a spammer.   I do know someone on Kiva who has frequently run into that limit.  She is a tireless team builder and so she sends a lot of messages.  Her stats on Kiva are very similar to my own however, so by the above metrics it would be obvious that she is not a spammer.

What is interesting to me is that the only abusive team messages I have received on Kiva were not due to new members without loans or members sending more than 25 messages a day.  They were from long-time Kiva members who happened to be angry about something.  Other incidents I recall hearing about involved journal spam and yet I think you don't have to be on a loan, or even a member of Kiva at all, to leave journal comments.  I think all you have to do is type the two captcha words to leave a journal comment.  Go figure.
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waywardcats
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« Reply To This #1 on: August 19, 2010, 12:10:38 AM »


I would like to propose that this spam filter system be enhanced a bit.  These new Kiva members were both invites of mine, so they appear on my lender page.  It seems that in the case of accepted invites, the "reputation" of the inviter could be used to vouch for the invitee.  The following reputation metrics should be easy to verify.

  • Length of Kiva membership.  (Since December 30, 2007 in my case.)
  • Number of loans.  (Well over 700 in my case.)
  • Number of accepted invites.  (I had 7 prior to these two, none of which were spammers.) 
  • Number of teams or team messages sent. (I'm on 23 teams now, no telling how many messages sent.)
  • Being a team captain.  (I captain two teams with 400+ members.) 

I think it would be relatively simple using any of these metrics for the system to figure out that I am not a spammer and my invitees are probably not spammers. 

Another option that would work as well for non-invitees would be an override function so the team captain could vouch for the new member.  Instead of the "you must be a spammer" message, they could be presented with a button to request full team access which would send me a message I could act upon to confirm their legitimacy.


If you are curious about the history of this rule, I think you will find an answer in the Lender Messages thread.  It took only a couple of days from the introduction of the lender message feature for spammers to start to post loan requests.  The one loan rule seemed as the best solution to the issue, and it has worked well, imo.

I understand how this rule caused you embarrassment, and I am sorry about that.  However, I think it is not terribly likely that this scenario will be repeated very often.  I'm not against the rules you propose, but I would rather see Kiva prioritize fixing issues that affect many lenders - such as implementing portfolio tools - before addressing this unless it is a simple fix, a matter of a couple keystrokes, then I am all for it.

-Kerry-
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"Our daughters can contribute just as much to society as our sons, and our common prosperity will be advanced by allowing all humanity - men and women - to reach their full potential. I do not believe that women must make the same choices as men in order to be equal, and I respect those women who choose to live their lives in traditional roles. But it should be their choice. That is why the United States will partner with any Muslim-majority country to support expanded literacy for girls, and to help young women pursue employment through micro-financing that helps people live their dreams." - President Barack Obama, June 4, 2009
David2051
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« Reply To This #2 on: August 19, 2010, 07:29:00 AM »

  The one loan rule seemed as the best solution to the issue, and it has worked well, imo.

I'm sorry I can't agree with you.  I can't imagine any scenario in which treating everyone as guilty until proven innocent could in any way ever be construed as the best solution
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Join Team Smile Train!  http://www.kiva.org/team/smile_train  :-)
“send a postcard and receive a postcard back from a random person somewhere in the world!” http://www.postcrossing.com/

Learn more about ovarian cancer. Educate for early detection.  http://ovariancancerin.org/

Be a bone marrow donor, save a life.  http://bit.ly/4Amit
AccountAbility
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Friday Harbor, WA
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« Reply To This #3 on: August 19, 2010, 11:59:12 AM »

I'm sorry I can't agree with you.  I can't imagine any scenario in which treating everyone as guilty until proven innocent could in any way ever be construed as the best solution


That is hardly a fair way of characterizing a rule that simply says Kiva is a loan platform and some of the privileges for using all of the features of the platform are reserved for those who made at least one loan. 

I do sympathize with the awkwardness resulting from your genuine invitation, but since as you pointed out a gift certificate can fix the issue, it doesn't seem to warrant a lot of resource to implement a more complex rule. 

I was not aware of the rule myself, so I might have fallen into the same embarrassing situation.  Now that it has been mentioned I do remember this additional rule, but is this posted anyplace where existing team members can see it?

Dan
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David2051
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Evansville, IN
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« Reply To This #4 on: August 19, 2010, 08:51:13 PM »

Yes, Kiva is a loan platform, but especially now some people don't have the money to loan at the moment, but they can make valuable contributions to the communities that develop in Kiva teams.  And once they are welcomed as members of the team I would suspect many will lend in the future, when they are able to do so.

I really don't think it would take that much to see if a new member was an invite of an active lender.  And I don't think the spam issues in the past were caused by invited members.
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Join Team Smile Train!  http://www.kiva.org/team/smile_train  :-)
“send a postcard and receive a postcard back from a random person somewhere in the world!” http://www.postcrossing.com/

Learn more about ovarian cancer. Educate for early detection.  http://ovariancancerin.org/

Be a bone marrow donor, save a life.  http://bit.ly/4Amit
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