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Author Topic: Kiva / KivaFriends collaboration : Scheduled Repayment Estimates Feature  (Read 4608 times)
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David2051
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« Reply To This #20 on: November 11, 2010, 06:35:47 PM »

IE6! The bank considers using outdated browsers with many known exploits to be the way to minimize risk? Shocked

You commented that sites need to be "IE6 compliant"...

IE needs to die.

 Shocked Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Tongue

Thank you, Paul!  lol   I'm so glad there is something beyond Vista now so my company can finally move beyond XP...
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David2051
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« Reply To This #21 on: November 11, 2010, 07:18:42 PM »

I understand that difference. But do you think indicating the due day (1st of the month) would help most users or confuse them more about how most of the repayments are settled (and back in the lender account typically 15 days) prior to that stated due date? My guess is that exposing them to the 1st of the month due date, it would make them (hopefully) question their mis-undstanding of the 15th being the "due date" to at least make them read the disclaimer which explains it all.

Richard's comment earlier about having a "basic yet complete" solution is hindered by how basic do you make something before it actually doesn't indicate a complex reality... and that the average user would have to gain a bunch of extra knowledge about the system before the feature was useful to them. It expects a general knowledge of Kiva accounting that is not known to the vast majority of users... what is the best way to indicate this? I tried to account for this in the disclaimer, which has become apparent that no one (even of the most sophisticated users) read.

Paul

It's not true that no one read it.  I read it!  I would suggest that the "disclaimer" should probably be at the top of the screen.  More people might read it and learn a thing or two that way.  It also provides the instructions for what the links do, so it would seem to fit at the top.

I do think that indicating the due day would help both on this repayment estimate and on the individual loan repayment schedules.  I've advocated before for showing full dates, including the day, for the expected and actual repayment to lender dates on the repayment schedules.  Regarding the international date formatting ambiguity, it may be best to spell the month and always present dates in the same format.  The expected repayment dates are now shown in Jan 1, 2010 format.
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nuclearspike
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« Reply To This #22 on: November 12, 2010, 03:44:11 AM »

Shocked Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Tongue

Thank you, Paul!  lol   I'm so glad there is something beyond Vista now so my company can finally move beyond XP...

Vista, YIKES. No wonder you hadn't upgraded! Were there any businesses (that had tested it) that actually installed that POS company-wide? Win7 came from a different team entirely, the ones who made NT which knew a little bit more about how computers (should) work than the Vista crew. Vista was one of the biggest failures in software. MS originally pulled the plug on XP after the Vista release and companies like Dell were still selling XP machines against MS wishes (they sold it with Vista licenses -technically- but had XP "upgrades"!), because no one wanted Vista! MS had to recant & keep supporting XP until they had an actual alternative! How embarrassing for the Vista team.

My last job was as a Windows Desktop App developer, and we all developed on XP machines, we had a Vista box for testing but no one wanted to use that OS on the development machine... IT SUCKS. Win7 is much better. Now that I'm at Kiva, I work on a Mac. The tower that runs my home plasma TV is a Win7 machine and I still have another Win7 tower machine to do KivaBank development, but that only gets switched on if I have something to upgrade or fix. I've been a Windows user since back to MS-DOS days, and until Kiva, all of my previous development has been on Windows machines (though I bought a MBP to do iPhone development). Mac (now that it's resting on Unix since OSX) is far superior to Windows in so many ways. Security on Windows is an afterthought and makes many programs not work once implemented since everything on Windows was always a free-for-all open playground for the developers. You want to modify registry settings for an app you didn't write? NO PROBLEM! You want to delete/modify files that don't belong to you? NO PROBLEM! You want to replace critical system files (with potential viruses)? NO PROBLEM!

For Unix-based OSs, security was there from the start. In the early days of the web, IE let any website load an ActiveX control and run it in the browser without even asking the user if they wanted to install it (MS's naive thinking: "Ooo, too confusing for users and it makes creating websites for IE too hard! What Windows developer would ever do something bad?"). That ActiveX control was running *without a sandbox* and could read/alter/delete anything on your machine. The only safeguard was that the ActiveX controls had to have a "safe bit" set in order to run in the browser. Who got to control whether or not the single "safe bit" was set? THE DEVELOPER! So any malicious developer could easily set the "safe bit" to True (1) and execute any code they wanted to on your machine without restrictions and without your permission! That's how much Microsoft was thinking about security back then... IOW, not-at-all! MS had to introduce security (which breaks a bunch of existing programs due to the previous assumptions of "no restrictions"), Unix-based OSs had security from the start. So when people complain about how their programs don't work on newer Windows versions, it's because those programs were doing things they never would have been able to do in the first place on secure OSs. MS has had to balance usability and past-program compatibility with security. Even the whole "screen goes grey, user has to accept code to run" feature in Vista has known hacks around it. Essentially, it's only there to make the user feel-good about how secure things are, not because it actually is secure. Even Program-based permissions breaks down, because the Windows API allows a developer to load your DLL into the process space of another process. So, I can get my code to run with all the permissions you've granted to other applications, and all without you knowing about it. It's remarkably easy. When I first installed Norton Internet Security years ago, where you had grant permission to access the internet on a per-application basis. I wrote a DLL, loaded it into IE's process and since IE can't work without internet access, I could do whatever I wanted without user permissions -- very easy! That "security" was all smoke and mirrors and only prevented dumb developers from not easily working around that "security".

On a separate but related note, MS doesn't even support Macros in Excel for the Mac. Ian, your spreadsheets do not work when running on the Mac-versions of Excel. Was this MS just being lazy or were the macro abilities so un-checked that trying to implement them on an OS that cared about the source of the code (and all the restrictions about what it could/couldn't touch on the machine) too much of a hurdle for them to overcome? I don't know the answer to that. But my guess is that when Excel is forced to run in an actually-secure environment, macro-security was just too much for the team to bear.

Paul
« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 03:47:16 AM by nuclearspike » Logged

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« Reply To This #23 on: November 12, 2010, 03:47:02 AM »

It's not true that no one read it.  I read it!  I would suggest that the "disclaimer" should probably be at the top of the screen.  More people might read it and learn a thing or two that way.  It also provides the instructions for what the links do, so it would seem to fit at the top.

I do think that indicating the due day would help both on this repayment estimate and on the individual loan repayment schedules.  I've advocated before for showing full dates, including the day, for the expected and actual repayment to lender dates on the repayment schedules.  Regarding the international date formatting ambiguity, it may be best to spell the month and always present dates in the same format.  The expected repayment dates are now shown in Jan 1, 2010 format.

I've thought about breaking the whole "disclaimer" block into separate blocks, as you allude to. Have one section (above the feature) about repayment details, with the lawyer-speak about risk lending to the working poor at the bottom. All of it is mixed together at the moment.

P
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AccountAbility
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« Reply To This #24 on: November 12, 2010, 03:57:41 PM »

Of course I read what you are calling "disclaimers".  I just didn't think of them as anything other than explanations.  I actually went back and looked for your "disclaimers" and was puzzled that I couldn't find them.  Grin

The part of this that is so complex is really just that it is almost impossible to relate what the estimates are to what actually happens in the repayments.

My actual repayments as a lender in My Credits have a specific date.  When they show up as expected, I can match them to the advanced repayment schedule.  But when they don't show up exactly as expected, the transaction in My Credits is not easily linked to a particular "expected" repayment--particularly if it overlaps two or more expected repayments.

One helpful bridge to at least make it easier to manually make the link would be if there was a hot link right next to the repayment in My Credits that brought me right to the advanced repayment schedule.  (This is one place where specific dates in the repayment data would help make this link.)

In any real accounting for loans, I would expect to have each expected repayment and right next to it the actual repayment detail that allows that repayment to be marked off as "paid".

Dan
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 03:59:25 PM by AccountAbility » Logged

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David2051
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« Reply To This #25 on: November 12, 2010, 07:08:54 PM »

Of course I read what you are calling "disclaimers".  I just didn't think of them as anything other than explanations.  I actually went back and looked for your "disclaimers" and was puzzled that I couldn't find them.  Grin

The part of this that is so complex is really just that it is almost impossible to relate what the estimates are to what actually happens in the repayments.

My actual repayments as a lender in My Credits have a specific date.  When they show up as expected, I can match them to the advanced repayment schedule.  But when they don't show up exactly as expected, the transaction in My Credits is not easily linked to a particular "expected" repayment--particularly if it overlaps two or more expected repayments.

One helpful bridge to at least make it easier to manually make the link would be if there was a hot link right next to the repayment in My Credits that brought me right to the advanced repayment schedule.  (This is one place where specific dates in the repayment data would help make this link.)

In any real accounting for loans, I would expect to have each expected repayment and right next to it the actual repayment detail that allows that repayment to be marked off as "paid".

Dan

I agree with what you're saying Dan. 

Something I would like to see eventually is a new column in the advanced repayment schedule showing my payment.  It's nice to know that the borrower repaid $95 or whatever, but I would like to see the $1.28 (or whatever) that was credited to my account on that date.  If it were linked back to the particular line in My Credits, that would be great.  Even if there was no link, if I knew the amount and date, I could find it.  Currently it can be very difficult to locate.
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Learn more about ovarian cancer. Educate for early detection.  http://ovariancancerin.org/

Be a bone marrow donor, save a life.  http://bit.ly/4Amit

Change a child's life, be a sponsor.  http://children.org/
cjp1973
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« Reply To This #26 on: November 16, 2010, 05:42:32 AM »

After using the repayments estimates for yesterdays net billing, I think that having the actual repayments here, as they come in, would be a great step. 
Thank you for the estimate though, it is definitely a step forward.

Charmaine
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nuclearspike
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« Reply To This #27 on: November 16, 2010, 06:08:34 AM »

After using the repayments estimates for yesterdays net billing, I think that having the actual repayments here, as they come in, would be a great step. 
Thank you for the estimate though, it is definitely a step forward.

Charmaine

In the works, there will be an extra column only for the current month.

Sep note: After repayments came in, the numbers for Dec changed and are now little wonky. I have coded a fix but it hasn't gone live.
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cjp1973
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« Reply To This #28 on: November 16, 2010, 08:11:17 AM »

In the works, there will be an extra column only for the current month.

Sep note: After repayments came in, the numbers for Dec changed and are now little wonky. I have coded a fix but it hasn't gone live.

Yeah, will look forward to it.  And I am also glad to hear that something changed after payments started coming in.  my numbers changed, but for the life of me can't figure out where.  Oh well, it isn't be much so will just wait and see.

Thanks
Charmaine
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nuclearspike
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« Reply To This #29 on: November 16, 2010, 02:04:46 PM »

Yeah, will look forward to it.  And I am also glad to hear that something changed after payments started coming in.  my numbers changed, but for the life of me can't figure out where.  Oh well, it isn't be much so will just wait and see.

Thanks
Charmaine

What happened was that any loan that ended after repayment was removed from the list, but if it still had more months to go then they stayed (even if repaid for the month). In the future all will stay, and for the month that is paying back, I'll put in the repaid amounts.

Paul
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