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Author Topic: Can the OneTime Promise of KivaFriends Be Restored?  (Read 1280 times)
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Jill
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« on: February 15, 2011, 11:37:03 AM »

Please understand that whatever I write reflects but one person’s opinion, my opinion.

In answering my own question, like too many who were here with me at the near beginning, I believe, probably not.  I mean, REALLY probably not.  I say that with sadness and loss, and actually, even with a kind of despair.  I say that, telling you that the idealism of my youth has taken a big hit as I’ve watched helplessly what, for me, has felt like the deterioration and disintegration of a community and a world-wide forum that could have been.


But I decided this morning that it’s always easier for us to rag and rail, to criticize and bemoan, and ultimately, simply to give up and leave, to quit sapping our limited energy, to try to cut our losses.  Sometimes, of course, that giving up the ghost is the mentally and emotionally healthier thing for us to do.  The more intelligent response.  (But sometimes, too many times, I’m afraid, I’m just not real bright….).


There’s probably not one person here, whether they’re posting anymore or not, not one person who has been at KivaFriends for a substantial period of time who couldn’t rattle off a really long list of reasons why they think that KivaFriends has diminished as it has.  I sure could, a really really long list, but in my mind there’s nothing constructive to be gained from reiterating what many of us already know.  The negative stuff.


I decided a little while ago, earlier this morning, that even though I feel pretty hopeless about it, I’m going to make one more effort.  I’m going to make that effort, thinking to myself what a sorry actually pretty pitiful idiot I am not to have let go a long time ago.  I’m going to make that effort really because I truly loved the idea of KivaFriends.  For me, there was so much hope in it, so much beauty in it, so much promise and potential in it to the point that to be melodramatic about it, it kind of kills me to have to give up on it.


So, that said, I’m giving myself, I’m basically giving the Forum just a little over a month, til the last day of winter, March 19th.  I’m going to try to do whatever I can to restore what I’m afraid may “forever” have already been lost.  Or, maybe it was never really there.  Maybe it was never really possible in the first place.  I don’t know.


What I do know is that I can’t do it by myself.   I’m a million billion per cent sure to fail, if it turns out that it isn’t worth it to a whole bunch of you to try, yourselves, to participate, to be positive, to share, to be vital, caring, responsibility-taking, giving members of this would-be community. 


That’s a decision that each of you will be making for yourselves.  I can’t make it for you.  And actually, I think it’s your right to make that decision for yourselves,  and without pressure.  You do what’s best for you.


Whether I personally continue to post, though, whether I continue to participate after that last day of winter,  depends.  To be my corny self about it, it depends on whether there will have been enough of a positive and insides-giving response on the parts of a whole lot of you to suggest, by the first day of Spring, that a rebirth, a rekindled hope for KivaFriends really might be possible.   I told you at the outset, I don’t have a lot of hope, not at all.  But for me, it’s worth one last effort.  Whether it will be for each of you, you get to decide.


I’m out of here for now, telling you that I soon will articulate, hopefully in posts that are tremendously shorter than this one,  a number of my own ideas of how we might improve the Forum.  I also intend to try to post, over the next few weeks, a bunch of times about a bunch of different things. 


Those posts won’t strictly be about Kiva and KivaFriends, though many of you know that I can and I do see connections between Kiva (and KivaFriends) and nearly everything else.  My own mind (and heart?) demand breadth and depth and terrific variety.  I, personally, want to and need to learn, and I want to feel, and I want to care and I want to grow. 


I almost always have conceptualized the Forum,  and have tried to view it as though I had just happened on it for the first time.  I have so often thought about it, when looking at the different posts, from the perspective of:


If this were my first time here, and I saw what was being talked about, would I be engaged?  Would I be interested?  Would I have any desire, based on what I was seeing among the recent posts, to come back, to maybe participate, to give and share of myself?  Would I feel that it was a safe place?  Would my first (and second and third) impression of it be that it was a learning place, a mind-and-heart-and perspective-expanding and giving place?


I have so often thought – what if we all tried to post, maybe not always but as much as possible, with those things in mind?  What a gift we could have.

Jill
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cpbailey
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« Reply To This #1 on: February 15, 2011, 11:47:22 AM »

Jill,

I saw your earlier post and wondered if it were the same Jill.  I even started to welcome Jill back.  Now that I am certain, I officially say that I am glad to see your return!

Colette
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iampaul
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« Reply To This #2 on: February 15, 2011, 12:11:22 PM »

In answering my own question, like too many who were here with me at the near beginning, I believe, probably not.
Quote
If this were my first time here, and I saw what was being talked about, would I be engaged?  Would I be interested?  Would I have any desire, based on what I was seeing among the recent posts, to come back, to maybe participate, to give and share of myself?  Would I feel that it was a safe place?  Would my first (and second and third) impression of it be that it was a learning place, a mind-and-heart-and perspective-expanding and giving place?

Jill, I am "relatively" new here, I think about a year and a half now. In that regard, I will answer first in that capacity to your later questions quoted above and my answer is yes.

And that brings me to respond to your first question, the title question of this thread, by asking what exactly is the OneTime Promise to which you are referring?

I look at KivaFriends' About page here and am left wondering what it is that you don't see. Perhaps it is not the nature of KivaFriends that has changed so much as the nature of Kiva itself and the changes in Kiva have taken the KF discussions along with them. To wit, KivaFriends is a place for people involved in the Kiva community to connect in a manner that is independent from Kiva. I found KF and came here partly in direct response to Kiva reacting negatively to, and forcing the censorship of, some lending team messages that were posted on Kiva's own site. Those messages specifically discussed non-Kiva microlending and apparently Kiva didn't like that. Here I am.

There is a lot positive that is discussed on KF, happy posts about women with hats and such, and I am guessing it is positive and upbeat discussions such as that to which you re referring. That's fine in my mind and I am all for that. But there needs to be a place to discuss the less upbeat as well. Do you find KF so "bad" in your mind now that you cannot skip over the stuff you aren't interested in seeing and must either push everyone else to discuss what you envision or move on?

Please clarify for me, a relatively new KF member, what it is that was here before in your eyes and is now gone.

Thanks,

Paul
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Mona
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« Reply To This #3 on: February 15, 2011, 12:55:47 PM »

Happy to see you back, Jill.  Smiley

Paul, I am of course not Jill and I am sure she will also answer to you herself. But what I would mention in this context is that the percentage of posts discussing "technical questions" like repayments, billing, problems with the Kiva webpage etc. has during the last months from my very personal feeling by far outweighed the "soft topic" like interesting loans (one year ago I think no-one would have ever dreamed that the "Mortgage the house ..." thread could become "cold" one day) or other just nice things like holiday threads (like wishing people a nice Christmas), book discussions or other interesting things that were in most parts not really Kiva related but related to this community.

These are of course no things you will find in the "About" page of this forum. It is more a question of spirit.  Wink

So if you ask me what is Kivafriends today, it is a great place to get your Kiva related questions answered (and I am really grateful to all who do so  Thanks), but the forum has also become a bit, well, boring I would say.  

So, yes, why not try to lift the spirit again together? I am in.  Smiley
--------

P.s.: And I would really love to have the chat back! Any chance left we can fix it? The chat is definitely something I have missed a lot recently.  Cry
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 02:31:02 PM by Mona » Logged
carien
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« Reply To This #4 on: February 15, 2011, 03:07:44 PM »

I think I said it before but I would like to have a little more positive stories we can share and yes the chat would be nice.

So let's try to get some of that old feeling back.


 Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

The chat would be nice to
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Patricia SF
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« Reply To This #5 on: February 15, 2011, 03:15:59 PM »

Hey Jill,

Reading your L---O---N---G from the heart post literally takes my breath away.  And I love you for it!

Welcome back my friend!  Here's to you Jill, lady of heart, soul, and mind!

Patricia
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Jill
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« Reply To This #6 on: February 15, 2011, 03:52:41 PM »

First.... I appreciate beyond words you guys making the effort, your trying to post, contribute.  Thank you.

Second... Paul, and thank you for raising the questions that you did, for giving your own perception.  I'll try to respond, maybe clarify a bit sometime over the next several days.  And everybody remember, please, what I've written, what I write, that's just one person's, my perception, however accurate or however not.

Take care,
Jill
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Jan & John
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« Reply To This #7 on: February 15, 2011, 08:21:38 PM »

Thanks Jill, and yes, welcome back Smiley

I admit and plead *guilty* that I have not contributed to the well being of this forum...

I blame two things for me...
...the first is my Facebook addiction ... many of us migrated onto Facebook and I have been finding and sharing awesome loans (some posted by other Kiva Friends) on my profile so hopefully I can attract my other (non-KF) friends to the site.
...the second is the number of Kiva Teams I have joined and the activity on those message boards.  I think a lot of that is also postings/sharings that used to be shared in this forum. 

I value this forum and always check in to see what's up and just *love* the folks interested enough in interest rates and net billing and yes - even the TOU at Kiva Smiley  These folks are keeping Kiva on it's toes and up front with what would normally be very behind the scens stuff.   

but you are right -- the flavour is different than when I joined up.

So... the moderators didn't desert us, Charmaine and Ali are still trying to solve issues, and JohnAtKiva is a blessing.  Let's give it another shot, shall we?  Thumbs Up

-jan-

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Amy-in-PHX
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« Reply To This #8 on: February 15, 2011, 10:06:12 PM »

Thanks Jill, and yes, welcome back Smiley

I value this forum and always check in to see what's up and just *love* the folks interested enough in interest rates and net billing and yes - even the TOU at Kiva Smiley  These folks are keeping Kiva on it's toes and up front with what would normally be very behind the scens stuff. 
. . . . . . .  

-jan-




I have learned a lot in the short time I have been on this forum, about those "nuts and bolts" issues Jan mentioned -- and it has provided me invaluable information on many Field Partners and how they have behaved, historically.  (Kiva's website is pretty limited on historical perspective -- even considering "history" to include what happened last month!)  I am very grateful to RichardF, in particular, for helping me with delinquency and default info.  And the forum has given me a way to talk with Kiva and others about some concerns I have had with the risk disclosures.

It takes all kinds to make a world, as my mom used to say.  If nuts & bolts are boring to some, well, I hope those folks can skim over the bits they don't care for.  I would not like to lose that type of info-sharing here.  I do also love sharing favorite borrower photos, favorite loan write-ups, etc, etc, and the perspectives of people with a more artistic worldview.  So, the more the merrier, as far as I am concerned.
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AccountAbility
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« Reply To This #9 on: February 15, 2011, 11:39:35 PM »

Welcome back, Jill.   Cheerleader
You have always had a unique perspective here and I have missed your active participation.  You certainly will have more luck than I ever would to bring more of your spirit to Kiva Friends.  There has been less of certain kinds of posts here and the "community" that you have focused on does seem to be less active--maybe because one of the principal cheerleaders was gone.

I have had a difficult time, however, when people say that there is too much of this or that on Kiva Friends recently.  It's as though they only select "show all recent posts on Kiva Friends" as the only way they approach the forum.  I really have no idea of the relative quantity of posts in this or that thread because I will first look at 'list of recent threads with unread posts".  I then pursue my interests and give wide permission for others to pursue theirs.  When I have extra time I explore some of the other threads and find any number of people posting there.   

Sometimes I even find a thread that I go back and start at the beginning because it catches my interest.  You have been on a lot of them.  I have learned to both respect you and your opinion as well as to sincerely trust you and value your spirit and appreciate your goodness.  So I look forward to what you can add to this forum.

Dan
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