Make the Sector and Activity fields useful

[Guest]

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[DoubleR]

You introduce still another word into this discussion of terminology-- "Purpose"-- which isn't used in the headings by Kiva at all.  It sometimes can be inferred from the write up, but sometimes there is both an immediate and longer term purpose.  For instance I regularly see borrowers desiring a loan to buy goods for resale so that they can earn enough to have their kids attend school (or some other such need).  Is the purpose buying goods for resale or is the purpose to send their kids to school?

At least in that example the sector should be clearly retail.  But then you find a loan where the borrower is a worker in a manufacturing plant and the sector is listed as "manufacturing".  Maybe that's not the right answer, but the "right" answer is sometimes elusive.

Dan,

The loan use (Kiva term) or "purpose" (my terminology) should be the immediate-term use.  In the first example you cite, the loan use is to buy the goods for resale and then the profits will be used to pay for the children's education.  It was not my intention to create confusion by introducing my own terminology into the discussion. 

I have also come across loans like your second example.  The ones I have encountered are usually for personal use, such as purchasing a motorcycle to get to work.  I have seen FPs choose the Sector/Activity based on the person's occupation instead of the intended use of the loan.  When I come across this situation, I update the Sector/Activity to one that is more appropriate.  In the example of the factory worker who needs to buy a motorcycle, I would have updated the Sector/Activity to "Personal Use: Vehicle".  

My hat's off to all of you volunteer translators, so please don't think I am dumping on you.  As lenders, we are looking for the most information and clearest descriptions. It's just that these concepts on Kiva do not seem to be consistently applied--and maybe they even defy forced categorizations.

No not at all.  I'm also a Kiva lender and these type of issues need to be addressed.  Being a volunteer, I am able to report this type of issue through our chain of command so that it can be dealt with appropriately, so this discussion has been healthy.  Since I get to be part of the process that not many people see, I will say that I do have a greater appreciation for the effort it takes to get a loan posted before thousands of fellow Kiva lenders.      

Regards,
Ronan

[Amy-in-PHX]

I was not aware that volunteers had any responsibility for the Sector and Activity designations of loans.  So, obviously, I was not suggesting that any of the examples I listed were the "fault" of volunteers, or due to lack of effort on their part.  But I don't see how volunteers' involvement reduces the need for what I suggested -- Kiva needs to recognize that a problem exists that is degrading the lender experience, needs to develop some set of (brief) instructions for how those Sector and Activity fields should be filled in, and should be providing some guidance to FPs' Kiva coordinators and the vounteers on this subject.  Volunteers, each working individually, should not be expected to create consistency across the whole Kiva platform, in how these Sector and Activity fields are used.

I think the volunteers' work would be made much easier, if some of the things I suggested were implemented so that the FPs would put in better information in the first draft of the loan.  Vague words like "retail" and "services" are just not appropriate for the Activity field.  I can understand why Kiva leaves the Activity field as a blank to be filled in, rather than using a list of words with boxes to be checked -- the "wondrous variety" thread shows us that almost anything can become an income-generating activity.  But if you think about the fact that the purpose of the Loan Description is to communicate with potential lenders, I think it's obvious that in calling a loan Retail/Retail or Services/Services the FP is failing to communicate anything with the repetition of the word.  That is a clear, bright-line instruction that could be given -- make sure that the same word is not repeated in the Activity field, that was used for the Sector field.  It would also be very easy for a volunteer to notice when the FP has failed to follow that instruction.

The Sector field is different from the Activity field, is more general, and should be a list of words with check boxes, like we see on the left side of the "lend" page on Kiva.org.  I assume that it is.  But people still need some guidance on how to use the list, as the examples brought up in this thread demonstrate.  And that guidance ought to be written, because people (FP employees and volunteers) move on to new ventures and new people take their place, and because people just won't remember the instructions accurately over time, if they are not written.  Dan, Ronan and I are all in agreement that a loan is "construction" sector only if the borrower is engaged in a construction-sector business, and not if he is fixing up his personal residence.  I'm glad we agree -- but the issue here is that Kiva needs to write that down, and then communicate it consistently to FPs and anyone else who has responsibility for writing loan descriptions.  It is pretty clear that as of now, the FPs and volunteers do not know it.  (I estimate that at least 3/4 of "Construction" loans I have seen on the site, are for personal residence renovations and not for any kind of construction-sector business.)

[DoubleR]

I think the volunteers' work would be made much easier, if some of the things I suggested were implemented so that the FPs would put in better information in the first draft of the loan.  Vague words like "retail" and "services" are just not appropriate for the Activity field.  I can understand why Kiva leaves the Activity field as a blank to be filled in, rather than using a list of words with boxes to be checked -- the "wondrous variety" thread shows us that almost anything can become an income-generating activity.  But if you think about the fact that the purpose of the Loan Description is to communicate with potential lenders, I think it's obvious that in calling a loan Retail/Retail or Services/Services the FP is failing to communicate anything with the repetition of the word.  That is a clear, bright-line instruction that could be given -- make sure that the same word is not repeated in the Activity field, that was used for the Sector field.  It would also be very easy for a volunteer to notice when the FP has failed to follow that instruction.

The Sector field is different from the Activity field, is more general, and should be a list of words with check boxes, like we see on the left side of the "lend" page on Kiva.org.  I assume that it is.  But people still need some guidance on how to use the list, as the examples brought up in this thread demonstrate.  And that guidance ought to be written, because people (FP employees and volunteers) move on to new ventures and new people take their place, and because people just won't remember the instructions accurately over time, if they are not written.  Dan, Ronan and I are all in agreement that a loan is "construction" sector only if the borrower is engaged in a construction-sector business, and not if he is fixing up his personal residence.  I'm glad we agree -- but the issue here is that Kiva needs to write that down, and then communicate it consistently to FPs and anyone else who has responsibility for writing loan descriptions.  It is pretty clear that as of now, the FPs and volunteers do not know it.  (I estimate that at least 3/4 of "Construction" loans I have seen on the site, are for personal residence renovations and not for any kind of construction-sector business.)

With my volunteer hat on....

Just as an FYI:
1.  In the interface that the volunteers use to review loans, the Sector and Activities are already paired together.  We do not make separate selections for each one.  For example, when I update the activity to "Personal Housing Expenses", I have to locate it under the "Housing" sector.  I know this is probably a minor detail, but I wanted to provide an accurate representation of how the review process works.   
2.  The generic Sector/Activities pairings of "Retail: Retail" and "Services: Services" exist for situations when the Loan Use does not fit a specific pairing that exists in our system.  As you pointed out Amy, there have been several unique businesses that have appeared on Kiva that do not fall neatly into one of these specific category pairings.  For example, I translated a loan for a woman who hosts children's parties.  The Sector/Activity that was used was "Services: Services" (I don't recall if the FP had originally selected it or if I had made the update) since the business did not "fit" into any of the other existing pairing categories. 

As I mentioned earlier, when we do see repeated errors made by a particular FP we do report those so that Kiva can touch base with FP.  With regard to the volunteers, the selection of Sector/Activity is covered as part of our training material and the documentation is kept on an online database that is accessible to all volunteers whenever we need to reference it.  I cannot speak as to what occurs on the FP side, but I would make the assumption that they are provided training documentation as well. 

With my Kiva lender hat on....

When looking at loans to add to my personal Kiva lending portfolio, I too have been frustrated at seeing an overuse of the generic Sector/Activity pairings of "Retail:Retail" and "Services:Services" when I know that there are more specific pairings available for a particular loan.  I often wonder if this is just a lack of training on the part of an FP or perhaps their unwillingness to locate the specific pairing that matches the business.  My suggestion Amy would be to present this concern to ContactUs so that Customer Service can contact someone who handles the Field Partnerships to see what can be done on the FP side.  I have informed my Team Leader about this thread, so this issue will also get attention from the volunteer side.

Regards,
Ronan

[AccountAbility]

With my volunteer hat on....

Just as an FYI:
1.  In the interface that the volunteers use to review loans, the Sector and Activities are already paired together.  We do not make separate selections for each one.  For example, when I update the activity to "Personal Housing Expenses", I have to locate it under the "Housing" sector.  I know this is probably a minor detail, but I wanted to provide an accurate representation of how the review process works.  
2.  The generic Sector/Activities pairings of "Retail: Retail" and "Services: Services" exist for situations when the Loan Use does not fit a specific pairing that exists in our system.  As you pointed out Amy, there have been several unique businesses that have appeared on Kiva that do not fall neatly into one of these specific category pairings.  For example, I translated a loan for a woman who hosts children's parties.  The Sector/Activity that was used was "Services: Services" (I don't recall if the FP had originally selected it or if I had made the update) since the business did not "fit" into any of the other existing pairing categories.  

I am curious about this "pairing".  I have assumed that the sector was a multiple choice field and that the activity was an independent fill-in-the-blank field.  I would have thought the "right" information was Services/Children's Parties  or perhaps Services/Party Host.  Is the field for "activity" limited to a list of choices or is it truly "fill-in-the-blank"?  

If it is a list, then I would think a blank should be made available for unusual activities--especially since unusual activities often have extra appeal to lenders.

Dan

[DoubleR]

I am curious about this "pairing".  I have assumed that the sector was a multiple choice field and that the activity was an independent fill-in-the-blank field.  I would have thought the "right" information was Services/Children's Parties  or perhaps Services/Party Host.  Is the field for "activity" limited to a list of choices or is it truly "fill-in-the-blank"?  

If it is a list, then I would think a blank should be made available for unusual activities--especially since unusual activities often have extra appeal to lenders.

Dan

The Sector/Activities are not free-form "fill in the blank" fields, but a predefined list that a user must choose from.  In my opinion, having an "open" field presents two problems:

1.  I learned on online discussions with other members of the volunteer team that the FPs use an interface in one of the languages that Kiva works with (Spanish, French, Portuguese, Russian, or English), so the FPs see the predefined list of sector/activity pairing in their own language.  This would be problematic for the non-English interfaces because an FP could enter local terminology that may not have an exact English equivalent.  For example, there may be a loan from Central America for a "cevicheria" (a restaurant that serves marinated seafood).  If the FP entered "cevicheria" in a free-form "Activity" field, then it would create an additional step for translators in the review process (and reduce the number of loans we could possibly review in a given amount of time).  In the current environment, "Food: Restaurant"  would be an appropriate choice.  By limiting choices to a pre-defined list, then there is tighter control on the terminology used to describe a particular sector/activity.

2.  I can see that reviewing data in an open-ended field could potentially be a nightmare procedurally for volunteers.  How would one set the criteria as to what would be acceptable/not acceptable text?  As a translator, this would add another step in my review process and an additional contact point where human error can occur.  Having a pre-determined sector/activity listing is a much easier guide for a volunteer to follow than having to make judgment calls on an open-ended text field.  

Also, please take note that this is my speculation as a single volunteer as to why the system works the way it does.  You will need to verify with someone on the Kiva staff as to why particular interfaces were designed in a certain way.

Regards,
Ronan

[Amy-in-PHX]

With my volunteer hat on....

Just as an FYI:
1.  In the interface that the volunteers use to review loans, the Sector and Activities are already paired together.  We do not make separate selections for each one.  For example, when I update the activity to "Personal Housing Expenses", I have to locate it under the "Housing" sector.  I know this is probably a minor detail, but I wanted to provide an accurate representation of how the review process works.   
2.  The generic Sector/Activities pairings of "Retail: Retail" and "Services: Services" exist for situations when the Loan Use does not fit a specific pairing that exists in our system.  As you pointed out Amy, there have been several unique businesses that have appeared on Kiva that do not fall neatly into one of these specific category pairings.  For example, I translated a loan for a woman who hosts children's parties.  The Sector/Activity that was used was "Services: Services" (I don't recall if the FP had originally selected it or if I had made the update) since the business did not "fit" into any of the other existing pairing categories. 

{snip} 

The Sector/Activities are not free-form "fill in the blank" fields, but a predefined list that a user must choose from.

Thanks, Ronan, that information certainly sheds light on how the process works. 

It appears that there may be exceptions, though.  Here is a link to a loan I was just reading, in which Sector/Activity is listed as "Food/Balut-Making."  http://www.kiva.org/lend/307583   -- The loan is from Negros Women for Tomorrow in the Philippines.  I have to wonder whether that MFI, at least, has the ability to fill in free text in a blank for the Activity field, or whether "Baluts" come up frequently enough to have their own pre-defined category in the Kiva system.  (A balut is a boiled, fertilized egg, according to Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balut.     )

Apparently the Services/Services and Retail/Retail categories may be needed, for activities that defy categorization.  If I were Kiva, though, I would still try to find a way to eliminate them, since they are being overused to an extent that aggravates lenders.  (I hope everyone can agree that people who are making concrete blocks, or selling fish, or renovating their house and paying off other debt, are not in the business of "Services/Services."  Those were just three examples, from reading through the first 20 loans that came up after I clicked the "Services" sector box on Kiva's "Lend" page, yesterday.  You can see that I posted those examples in less than 50 minutes -- and I was not constantly at my computer during that time.  And they were not the only loans in the 20 that showed this problem -- they were just the examples I selected.)

Maybe Kiva needs to do some work to identify which "sectors" have the highest percentages of loans posted that are mis-identified, and then either re-work those Sector/Activity "pairings" for those Sectors, or re-work their training and reference materials provided to FPs and volunteers for use with the Sector/Activity lists.  (Recognizing that "mis-identification" will be clear in some cases, like the examples I posted here, and more of a judgment call in other cases.)   Maybe Kiva needs to institute some kind of regular "refresher" training on the use of the Sector/Activity lists.  OR - Maybe it would be possible to choose just one of the frequently-misused labels -- like "Construction" being applied to loans for personal housing renovations -- and train about that and monitor the loans posted as Construction loans, for however many weeks it takes to get the error rate below some target (say, 5%) for that particular Sector.  And then move on to another Sector, like Services, after that.  (I always find that if I am "trained" on too many things at once, it tends not to stick.  An "overview" is good, but breaking things down into small pieces and learning one at a time is even better, in my experience, especially when it comes to learning anything having to do with how to use software.)

[DoubleR]

It appears that there may be exceptions, though.  Here is a link to a loan I was just reading, in which Sector/Activity is listed as "Food/Balut-Making."  http://www.kiva.org/lend/307583   -- The loan is from Negros Women for Tomorrow in the Philippines.  I have to wonder whether that MFI, at least, has the ability to fill in free text in a blank for the Activity field, or whether "Baluts" come up frequently enough to have their own pre-defined category in the Kiva system.  (A balut is a boiled, fertilized egg, according to Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balut.     )

I just logged into the interface that the volunteers use and indeed "Food:Balut-Making" is a selection that is available.  I don't know for sure, but I would guess that the FPs from the Philippines probably requested this pairing to be added to the system as a selection since since it is a common type of loan in their part of the world.  (I personally am not a big fan of balut, and I'm Filipino.)

Maybe Kiva needs to do some work to identify which "sectors" have the highest percentages of loans posted that are mis-identified, and then either re-work those Sector/Activity "pairings" for those Sectors, or re-work their training and reference materials provided to FPs and volunteers for use with the Sector/Activity lists.  (Recognizing that "mis-identification" will be clear in some cases, like the examples I posted here, and more of a judgment call in other cases.)   Maybe Kiva needs to institute some kind of regular "refresher" training on the use of the Sector/Activity lists.  OR - Maybe it would be possible to choose just one of the frequently-misused labels -- like "Construction" being applied to loans for personal housing renovations -- and train about that and monitor the loans posted as Construction loans, for however many weeks it takes to get the error rate below some target (say, 5%) for that particular Sector.  And then move on to another Sector, like Services, after that.  (I always find that if I am "trained" on too many things at once, it tends not to stick.  An "overview" is good, but breaking things down into small pieces and learning one at a time is even better, in my experience, especially when it comes to learning anything having to do with how to use software.)

That sounds like a reasonable course of action!

Regards,
Ronan

[JohnAtKiva]

Hello all -

I wanted to loop back here with everyone. :-)

We've shared this thread with our Review and Translation teams, as well as the Global Operations team in general.  They have reached out to a few of our field partners who have been posting sector/activities along the lines of what was flagged earlier (e.g. Services:Services).  We'll work to re-train them on how to select more appropriate loan sector and activity fields.

We'll also be reaching out to our volunteer editors and translators as well, to remind our team to be on the lookout for this issue! 

We could use your help with this moving forward as well:

• If you see any particular partners struggling with this issue, please flag it here or drop an email to Kiva's customer service team at contactus@kiva.org.  we can use that info to reach out to those partners for additional training.  We will do our own analysis of course, but could use your eagle eyes as well!
• If you spot things getting better with a particular partner, please let us know that as well!  We can share positive feedback with partners as well; that can help us reinforce positive trends. :-)

That's it for now.  Thanks again for the feedback, and hopefully together we can make the site better and more accurate!

Thanks,
John

[AccountAbility]

Thanks, John.  This felt like a constructive thread with everyone contributing to make Kiva even better.   

Dan