A sad event, noted in the Journals today: Mark Agwonah

[Guest]

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[BenElberger]

Hey Guys,

Your outpouring of support has been tremendous and Irene is overwhelmed with the way the community has rallied.

For the fund for Mark Agwonah's wife, I'd communicate directly with Irene.  This is not something that Kiva cannot, unfortunately, facilitate right now but I would encourage you to work directly with Action Now: Kenya.  The email address listed above for Irene is the best way to reach her.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks!
Ben

[Laurie]

Hello, team.  I'm baaaack!

Oli, my first comments are to you, about the lending fund in Mark's name. 

You have mentioned more than once that you intend to keep records of everyone who sends money so that it can be withdrawn by the "lender" when it is repaid.  I believe you should rethink that, and here is why.

In my mind, I picture the lender group as self-perpetuating.  Donations - gifts - come to you, the group administrator, as gift certificates, loans are made, loans are repaid, and the "credit" is used to make further loans.  Always in Mark's name and memory.

If you offer to keep track of where the money comes from, you are adding for yourself - and anyone else who takes over as administrator at a later date, if/when you no longer are able to do so - an unenviable level of complexity.  Giver A sends $50.  Giver B sends $75.  Giver C sends $100.  You make 6 loans, some for $25, some for $50.  They get repaid, slowly but surely.  Have you decided, and tracked, which "Giver's" money was used?  Who could (if they wanted to) be paid back?  Let's say a loan is repaid: you send them an email - oops, they have changed their address.  Or you don't hear from them, or?? Maybe they want you to reloan it, and it is just a portion of their original loan... my head hurts thinking about it.

Any of us who wish to make a loan in Mark's memory and NEEDS THEIR MONEY BACK can make a loan to a Kenyan borrower anytime in their own portfolio... with no additional administrative headaches for you, or your successor.  Make the loan, offer up a special thought to Mark and his family, a prayer for justice - and get their money back, or not, as the loan works out.

Though I very much appreciate your thought of tracking and administering these funds, I - just one of many potential lenders, so everyone can jump in here - would be very happy to make a DONATION to this lender group WITHOUT expectation of having it returned.  I actually would much PREFER that this fund would set up with the intention that all monies "gifted" through gift certificates would be just that - a gift to a fund to memorialize Mark in perpetuity.

What do the other Friends think about this?  I am very concerned that an expectation of "return" will result in an administrative nightmare and some potential problems down the road (if, for instance, a loan defaults - was it one of mine?  one of your"s?  who doesn't get their money back?)

Just my thoughts... open for discussion.

Safe travels,
Laurie
Writing from Canby, Oregon, USA

[Jill]

          Just got back.  Am a little fuzzy (fuzz-ier ) at this time of the night,
so I may forget to say something, but....

---- wanted to thank Matthew, too, for e-mailing the Elders on our/Mark Agwonah's/read OUR behalf

---- wanted to thank BenE/Kiva Leaders for listening in and for responding

---- wanted to respond to Laurie's query about the Group Members' Intent about the money used
     to "Gift Certificate" to "The Mark Agwonah Memorial Fund" Lenders Group
     (but I'll put my two cents in, on this, at the Mark Agwonah Fund thread,
     http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,682.0.html,
      in an attempt to try to keep this stuff organized)

---- wanted to tell you, in regard to the idea of "A Fund For Mark's Mom,"
       I will e-mail Irene and,
       I will check with my local bank
       sometime within the next couple of days and will get back to you when I find out anything
       (I'm still, probably, going to need your coaching/guidance on this,
        so you all keep thinking about this, too --- please)

---- and.... wanted to raise what may be a silly question, a question about the picture of Mark Agwonah--
     Since there were I think, at least three guys in the picture, are we sure that the
     picture of the young man that Diane photoshopped-played with
     was the right guy?

[Diane R]

It certainly wasn't either of the two in the back, and it's less likely to be the guy over on the edge of the picture in the Yankees cap.  The entrepreneur's photo would center on him, and I imagine Mark wanted to show his merchandise proudly, hence his reaching for his mobile phone stock hanging on the wall.  But since of course we want to be sure we did not make an incorrect assumption, could you perhaps attach a copy of the photo to the email you are sending to Irene Kamau and ask her to verify that this is in fact Mark?  Let me know if I got it wrong and I will definitely fix it immediately!  I have a sense that this is Mark, though.

--Diane.

[Jill]

  OK, Diane, I'll try.

     Since this Computer UnWizard has never tried to "grab" and attach a Photo to an e-mail, before,
no guarantees, but I will try.

[wind5001]

Laurie: Thank you so much for your contribution. I just now read your post here, after posting in the Fund thread. It is very convincing and I absolutely agree with you, 100%. If the others are d'accord, I will change it to donation (I know that Jill sees it as a donation).

Ben: Thanks for reading in and telling us what's possible, and what's not.

On the photo: I agree with Diane, I have a feeling it's him, too. But we certainly want to check. I emailed Irene informing her of the fund and sending a link to the group's profile at Kiva, asking her to review it. We can wait for her feedback, but I will also send her an email now, asking whether we really cut out Mark for our profile-page.

Oli

[Jill]

   Didn't sleep much; my mind kept spinning  around on  All Things Kiva. 

     Just now saw on the M.A. Fund thread, http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,682.15.html
that WF Glenda was asking what was up with the fund for Mark's mother.

     I'd thought about starting a new thread for it, but decided it would be easier to keep track of it if we
kept the conversation about it here -- and we can talk about the  Group Lender Fund, (same as above), in
the thread that's already been created for it. 

     Anyway, before I try to communicate with Irene, I was thinking that I will go to my bank either today
or tomorrow, with a list of questions, for them, that my apparently inexhaustible mind keeps making
additions to.

     Among the questions that I've come up with, so far:

1- I'm assuming the Fund should be in a Savings Account in Mark's Mom's Name (which I will have to find out).
    I don't know , as the Kiva Friends Stepper-Upper Person on this, if my name needs to be on the account, as well.

2- Whether there's a way to give donors "protection," -- a sense of security that this maybe/howcouldyouknow-rapscallion
    won't go running off with the money, i.e. whether there are any safeguards we can build into it

3- If, as I'm hoping, donations will be forthcoming from countries besides the United States, what would be the least
    complicated mechanism for you, out there, to get money into the fund

4- How, ultimately, will the funds be transferred to Kenya (hopefully to an account that Irene can get set up)--
    Is this all done through some kind of inter-and  -international bank "wiring" process or what.
    (I tried to tell you I don't have a clue... ).

5- Whether there are costs attached to that transferring -- affecting the decision, maybe (maybe not) as to whether I should
    wait a certain period of time to accumulate whatever funds will be coming, with the idea of making only one (possibly two)
    transfers, or.....

     I'm sure I had a bunch more questions, but I didn't take the time/have the sense to turn on the light and write them down.

    It also occurred to me that it probably would be the more privacy-protecting thing for me to get a Post Office Box
where people can mail their donations (instead of me giving out my street address for that purpose).  That is, unless there's a way
donations could be sent directly to my bank -- to the account -- circumventing any danger of Ol' Sticky Fingers -- actually,
more practically, just having it be a more direct process.

     That's where I am, right now.  Then I will write Irene, after I get some suggestions and answers from my bank.

     

 

[wind5001]

Hi Jill,

I have pondered the issue, too.

Here are my ideas:

A) Collecting the money:
The easiest would be through Paypal. Otherwise, there is no way, I/other out of US-ers could contribute to the fund (however little that would be). I had once sent a German cheque to the US (the amount being 220 $) - don't ask me why. Cashing it would have cost 180 $!! Henry suggested in the Fund forum, that we could use the Tip Jar for collecting the money: Tipping and sending a pm to Joe, that the money was for Mark's mother. Joe could collect it and then bulktransfer to the person in charge of getting the money to the MFI. It could be done by any other person that has PayPal. But this sounded easy on me...Sorry, Joe! Please say, if it isn't!!!!

B) Getting the money to the MFI:
I know that money transfer through banks is very ineffective, if it involves different countries. It costs incredibly much, it takes forever and the safeguards are very limited. If Kiva, as Ben said, really cannot assist us with the transfer of the money to the MFI (which I would find sad, because it could cut costs, if sent in bulk), then there is the option of Western Union Money Transfer. It has worked well for me (we got all the money to the Indonesian student that way and there was never a problem, even with higher amounts), the costs are quite sizeable, but I believe they are lower than the banks.

Just my two cents...
Oli

[wind5001]

One more thing:

Jill, I think we all appreciate your stepping up on this. And I for my part am sure that you will be doing the best that can be done! I am willing to assist, wherever I can, but I really have to watch my balance at the moment...just too much going on. So, please contact me, if you want more assistance. I will try to help!

Oli

[Jill]

     This is getting slightly crazy.

      Before posting anymore, here, would whoever has any ideas at all about
     The Fund for Mark's Mom,
     please first read the sort of duplicative posts that have been added to the
     Mark Agwonah Fund thread, http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,682.15.html

     and then COME BACK HERE, to the Sad Event thread,
     to carry on any further discussion about
     The Fund for Mark's Mom?

     Please.

    I'm getting dizzy.
     Not for the first time in my life,
     I don't know if I'm coming or I'm going  .