Two loans, 2 pictures: very similar. Staged set?

[Guest]

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[ej]

Here are 2 Kiva loans that are extremely similar both in picture and description.
The pictures show the same table, the same items on the table and even the background is the same, including the bush.
The loans were listed approximately one month apart.
Is this a staged set? The similarities make me wonder if the loan requests are for real.
Does Kiva check up on this sort of thing?
Should this sort of thing be reported, and if so, how?
(I'm new to Kiva, and love it, but this has scared me a bit.)

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=14390

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=14351

[AccountAbility]

While I am only speculating based on my experience on Kiva, I can surmise a number of reasons for the similarity.  One reasonable explanation is that this kind of "pharmacy" is essentially a traveling peddler.  Each of these ladies could have been asked to spread their wares in the sunny area outside the lender's office so the loan officer could take their picture. 

So in a way the pictures could be "staged" without there being any question as to their legitimacy.  I think you will see a pretty high level of credibility on Kiva, although the loans are made in very different cultures and environments, sometimes hard for us westerners to fully understand.

Dan

[Henry]

EJ, those two loans are fine examples of :  Loans I will not fund.  Same location, same table, same stuff on table, etc.    I just don't like what I see.  Probably a good reason for this, just not my taste. Thanks for pointing them out.

[ej]

Yes, Accountability, there could be reasons for this pair of similar listings, and I am hoping they are good reasons, such as what you suggested.
So much is the same in the photos, even to the debris on the ground, that the pictures must have been taken the same day. Yet I believe one was posted about a month after the other. This could be explained also: paperwork, investigations, communications, whatever delaying finalizing and posting of the one loan request.
Still, the loan requests are so similar, they leave a bad taste: something is wrong here.

Henry, I agree with you about avoiding funding loans that are not to one's taste.
I did contribute to fund one of these loans, and when I saw the second, (quite by accident), I wished I had not contributed to the first one. But how in the world would I have known?

When you do see something about a listing that seems "off," what should you do about it?
Should these things be brought to anyone's attention, or should we assume all is well since Kiva has a high level of credibility?

I saw the thread about double listings today, and their probable causes.
http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,506.0.html

Does Kiva need to be notified of this sort of thing, or do they find it themselves?
Do they look for it?

Just wondering.
I love Kiva, but I'll probably shy away from a few more listings, (like those in Togo), at least for a while.   Thanks for your comments.

[Jill]

ej---
     It always seems like it's worth... at least raising the issue--
here, even if nowhere else, at first,
when you notice something that doesn't seem quite right.

    More times than not, when it's happened in the past,
there's been a reasonable explanation for it,
and no "funny stuff" was going on.

     We're all pretty staunch believers in the integrity of the Kiva people,
or we wouldn't be here.
    But nobody can completely vouch for the straight-shootingness
of everybody connected with the MFIs  (see, WITEP),
so that's why it's great that there are so many of us on the lookout--
all with the common goal
of protecting Kiva and protecting the Entrepreneurs
(and, to be straight about it, of trying to protect ourselves-- our loan money, too).

[Henry]

EDIT:  At the same time - Someone opened a new topic here that better suites this
http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,950.msg7162.html#msg7162
My bread crumb - sour dough!


How do you like this?

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=13909

Loan was disbursed 7/12/07 according to the borrower page.
Payment was made  8/12/07 of $ 67.00

Loan cancelled refunded???

Aug 28, 2007 Kendall Mau 733.00 In our latest audit, we were not able to verify that Mr. Sanchez was the actual recipient of this loan. We are therefore repaying the balance owed. We hope that you will continue to support Kiva and its mission. Thank you very much. Kendall Mau


I really liked this loan ... sorry it's questionable.  Thanks Kendall for looking out on both ends. 

Where did the 'refund' money come from? 

[RichardF]

These two particular listings just look like they're "posed" to me.  They probably were taken at a convenient location and the "activity" of the entrepreneurs was "simulated."  I see this style of photo as a notch or two below a photo at their actual place of work and a notch or two above them sitting at the MFI office watching someone fill out the forms (Cambodia).