Pets in Kiva Lender Pictures - a take from Matt Flannery

[Guest]

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[fredr1c]

Matt Flannery has a new blog entry on the issue of lender pictures and their cross-cultural implications:

http://www.socialedge.org/blogs/kiva-chronicles/archive/2008/06/22/catfood-and-commoditization

We've talked extensively about this before here at Kivafriends.  Ulli's thread is a good starting point:

http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,855.0.html

[QueenOfHearts]

Thanks for the heads up Fred...Matt kind of says it all doesnt he.

Although I have changed my avitar to my grandchildren...maybe I need to get a picture taken of all three of us!!!

Queen

[RichardF]

Premise:  Pets make loans to Kiva entrepreneurs.

Reality:  False.

Existential Question:  If I were a guinea pig, would I most want to see my picture on a Kiva lender profile or entrepreneur profile?

Jaded Opinion:  Matt's hands-off stand on cultural sensitivity to the use of animals seems to be a bit biased, just like the views of all the rest of us.

Suggestion for Kiva:  I wholeheartedly support Kiva developing a training package for Field Partners and Fellows for why many Lenders might post pictures of animals on their profiles, such as pets are considered by many to be part of the family and concerns about privacy on the Internet (e.g., see Microfinanzas PRISMA listings), not pets are lenders.

[Sherri]

Ok, Matt's Journal entry, has convinced me to put a picture of myself up there. But I compromised by using an artist friend's drawing of me - I suppose until I can find a photo I don't loathe. Lol. Updated my KF profile pic too.

[quizzoid]

After the last time that we discussed this topic on KF, I changed from a picture of my cat to a real picture.  Having had several months to think about it, though, I'm leaning toward a philosophy of separation between Kiva and KF.

Just my personal two cents, here.      o o

On Kiva, I think that my picture should be a picture that respects the (cross-cultural) feelings of the MFI and the borrower.  I usually get cleaned up and wear nice clothes when I'm going to the bank for a loan.  Now that I am the bank, in a manner of speaking, I guess I should try to look nice.  (One of these days I'll get a better picture with a dress shirt and tie and use that on Kiva).

On KivaFriends, I think my picture should be whatever the heck that I want it to be, as long as it does not offend the vast majority of my KF peers.

Possibly this is an area where we can rejoice in the separation between Kiva and KF.

[DianeCharlie]

What a reasonable approach, quizzoid!
EDIT:  And I see your icon here at KF is now a stretched-out feline.  Ahhhhh, decks in the sun....


I wonder how Kiva will get this cultural point across to its new and existing lenders.

--Diane.

[waywardcats]

I'm leaning toward a philosophy of separation between Kiva and KF.

I agree also quizzoid. Here on Kiva friends, as on livejournal, I mostly prefer to use other pictures; travel photos or photos of my cats because it is understood.   It's our culture.

But I chose to use a real picture of me on my lender profile solely because I knew that the borrowers might see it and I felt that it would be more personal to show myself than one of my usual icon pictures.  I think Matt's blog raises an excellent point about cultural sensitivity.  Kiva is all about connecting with the people we are lending to, how can we do that if we assume that they will understand our cultural norms when their existences are so different to ours? 

-Kerry-

[michael]

Wow, how did I miss http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,855.50.html ?   I must have been napping that month, never even considered that issue.

Ironically, I took my personal photo off of Kiva and added my dog earlier this year following the "what happens to my funds if I die" fiasco (added my wife to the account name as well.)  In effect, Kiva's own (now sort of resolved) policy forced me from the specific to the general identifiers.  I have never had a reason to reverse this.

Having only this day read through the entire pet pic thread of last summer, I am a little (but only a little) perplexed.  I truly do not see a great deal of difference in a borrower's view of my pug pic versus a 10 year old child's pic (see Emily's Family) as the source of a loan, nor do I truly believe that this perception totally matters.  Seems to me to be splitting hairs, picking nits, whatever.  But it's Matt's site, and ultimately one plays by his rules, agreeing with them or not. 

And having already blown up one Kiva relationship through inadvertent offense this week (Hurry back, Henry!) I guess I'll have to find a decent photo to upload over at Kiva Prime, if only to keep the peace.  It costs me nothing personally to make others happy on this point.


(editted to clarify my wording and fix a typoo)

[AccountAbility]

I must confess I have lost interest in this particular issue -- at least for now. 

The whole premise that Kiva is about person to person transactions is in jeopardy.  First, the Journal updates get scarcer and scarcer so that lenders have very little to connect to, other than the original write up. 

Then the site gets "overrun" by group loans, which are still being refined--but essentially tell even less about the individuals who are borrowing. 

There really is very little indication that the borrowers even know that Kiva exists, let alone that the individual lenders are discrete persons with identities.

So the profiles are turning into a lender persona, an avatar and some publicity for other lenders to view.

As the current situation exists, why not just show borrowers Matt and Jessica's pictures and tell them these wonder folk have found funding for them?

There is my Monday Morning rant.

Dan

[RichardF]

I recently posted one of my favorite quotes elsewhere and I'll post it here too.

"I know, [there is] no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of society, but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."
— Thomas Jefferson, in an 1820 letter to William C. Jarvis

Cultural sensitivity is a reciprocal issue.  I see the question of how animals are viewed in different contexts as an excellent learning opportunity for all parties concerned.  If Matt says I have to take down my family picture, I will (but I really don't expect he will).  If the truth be told, I personally have to deal with animal issues in my own culture more than I ever have to with those in another. 

On the other hand, do I believe MFIs and borrowers should attempt to understand why some lenders post pictures of animals, children, inanimate objects, scenery, or who-knows-what-other-types-of-not-them photos?  Yes.  If Kiva sees this as a problem, then they also should step up and be part of the solution – through education – for all parties concerned.