Repayments

[Guest]

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[Silvia]

Hi all...

A question concerning repayments... I haven't had any repayment within the last month... same goes for my relatives... is anyone of you experiencing the same problems? If so, will it be solved (does anybody know)....

Curious!

Regards,
Silvia

[wthepoo]

Hi Silvia,

we all are experiencing the same situation - it has to do with a new "system" of handling repayments Kiva has implemented (I believe) in late October.

You can find it explained in Kiva's Help Center: http://www.kiva.org/about/help/questions?subtopic=How%20Kiva.org%20Works#question18

Or you can read up on it on the following threads:

http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,2948.0.html (starting right from the beginning)

http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,321.msg45565.html#msg45565 (starting on page 22 of 54... so there will be a lot of reading to do... you may want to start from the end...)

and

http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,2943.0.html

Hope that helps,
best wishes,
Wolfgang.

[Sengbe Pieh]

Hi Silvia,

                                                                                                                                                               

There is extensive conversation concerning repayments & the newest updates to Kiva's system of billing & repayment to lenders in the following threads:

Topic: Concerns Over Repayment of Loans

http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,321.msg46050.html#msg46050

Topic: Bugs and New Repayment System - Q&A With Kiva CS

http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,2948.msg46802.html#msg46802

                                                                                                                                                                                             

The bottom line is the repayments we had received on a daily basis when Kiva released that $10,000,000 was only a temporary phase.

Repayments will now only be released around the 15th of the month or a little after, if I (barely) understand the new system.

I have only received a small amount of repayments on Nov. 15, 16, 19, & 22 on over 980 active loans.

The best that I can determine is you will see more or less repayments depending on the # of active loans you have.

                                                                                               

Hope this helps.

                                                                                                                                                                     

Geoff

EDIT: I see that Wolfgang beat me to it. He was able to research the links much quicker than I. No surprise really! 

[howard]

I appreciate (to a degree, anyway) the new rules over repayment programmes, and the delays these will entail. However, we now have Edaprospo loans from Peru, listed as 3-month loans, posted 24 November, for disbursement 9 January, and (latest) repayment shown from April 15 to July 15. From 24 November to 15 July is nearly EIGHT months, yet it is described as a 3-month loan. Shouldn't the description be more honest? I believe that the loan period stated should be that from posting date to the latest date for the final repayment, rounded up or down to the nearest whole month, since that is the period for which the lender is committing his money to Kiva (so in this case, 8 months), even if he might perhaps be repaid a month or so earlier. Transparency again?

Howard

[MTNEER]

I appreciate (to a degree, anyway) the new rules over repayment programmes, and the delays these will entail. However, we now have Edaprospo loans from Peru, listed as 3-month loans, posted 24 November, for disbursement 9 January, and (latest) repayment shown from April 15 to July 15. From 24 November to 15 July is nearly EIGHT months, yet it is described as a 3-month loan. Shouldn't the description be more honest? I believe that the loan period stated should be that from posting date to the latest date for the final repayment, rounded up or down to the nearest whole month, since that is the period for which the lender is committing his money to Kiva (so in this case, 8 months), even if he might perhaps be repaid a month or so earlier. Transparency again?

Howard

I had the same question earlier and the way it was spun to me was that the loan would still be a 3 month loan to the recipient. The other 5 months are "transactional realities" for Kiva and the field guys.

I just wish that Kiva would advertise loans based on the how long the lender could expect to see his/ her money back as compared to how long the recipient gets to repay.

That disjoint is extremely annoying to me as I would like to keep my money flow predictable (at least within a few days.. not the few months of uncertainty in the system now).

[AccountAbility]

I had the same question earlier and the way it was spun to me was that the loan would still be a 3 month loan to the recipient. The other 5 months are "transactional realities" for Kiva and the field guys.

I just wish that Kiva would advertise loans based on the how long the lender could expect to see his/ her money back as compared to how long the recipient gets to repay.

That disjoint is extremely annoying to me as I would like to keep my money flow predictable (at least within a few days.. not the few months of uncertainty in the system now).

With all due respect, I think it is a bit unreasonable to think that we can send our loan funds all over the world to some of the most backward regions and then wait while hardworking folks make repayments so it can transfer through multiple hands back to Kiva and its lenders-- and have the process at each end occur over a matter of days. 

Where Kiva is moving toward is a realistic process clearly explained.  This is obviously still a work in progress.  But the goal is to see that entrepreneurs around the world are given a chance to grow their businesses and their lives using our funds which we provide.  If it takes time at both ends to accomplish this -- that should be okay.  Especially if it is fully explained to us.

Dan

[MTNEER]

With all due respect, I think it is a bit unreasonable to think that we can send our loan funds all over the world to some of the most backward regions and then wait while hardworking folks make repayments so it can transfer through multiple hands back to Kiva and its lenders-- and have the process at each end occur over a matter of days. 

Where Kiva is moving toward is a realistic process clearly explained.  This is obviously still a work in progress.  But the goal is to see that entrepreneurs around the world are given a chance to grow their businesses and their lives using our funds which we provide.  If it takes time at both ends to accomplish this -- that should be okay.  Especially if it is fully explained to us.

Dan

Dan, I don't say your explanation is wrong. I am not calling for an instantaneous wire transfer from the recipient to me within 24 hours. That's not what is confusing me here.

It is the way Kiva advertises the loan.

All I want to know is - when do I expect to see my money? Give me a plan: On Dec 1st I give my money. 3 months later - March 1st; I want to see it back. If I can see regular partial payments in between; some connection between the lender and the recipient - power to Kiva

Right now; what is bugging me the most are all the claims of transparency which is supposedly good for us lenders. But there is huge uncertainty on when I will get the repayment. Kiva says 15th.. but it could be anywhere between that 15th and the next 15th.. and even then there is an added month before its past due. I don't really care if the field partner collects the money from the recipient in monthly installments or weekly installments or whatever. I don't really want to know (or care) if XXX Big Bank needs 2 months to wire money from the farthest corner of the world. I just want to know when I see 3 months I can "expect" my money back in 3 months (and help the recipient). If that money isn't there a week (or 2 weeks or a month) after that: mark it delinquent.

If the loan which the previous poster mentioned was being advertised as an 8 month loan - I wouldn't have any issues. It includes (1) the operational lead times you mentioned; (2) the recipient has whatever time the field guys choose to repay AND I will know that I can check back in 8 months to see that money back in my account.

For me, uncertainty is more bugging than any claimed transparency - start and end dates are sacrosanct to me!

[AccountAbility]

Dan, I don't say your explanation is wrong. I am not calling for an instantaneous wire transfer from the recipient to me within 24 hours. That's not what is confusing me here.

.... I don't really care if the field partner collects the money from the recipient in monthly installments or weekly installments or whatever. I don't really want to know (or care) if XXX Big Bank needs 2 months to wire money from the farthest corner of the world. I just want to know when I see 3 months I can "expect" my money back in 3 months (and help the recipient). If that money isn't there a week (or 2 weeks or a month) after that: mark it delinquent.

....For me, uncertainty is more bugging than any claimed transparency - start and end dates are sacrosanct to me!

Certainty is not an easy thing to deliver to and from the kind of poor entrepreneur that Kiva money is going to.  If you haven't already done so, I would urge you to read through some of the Kiva Fellow blogs on the Kiva website.  In many cases the overworked loan officer is traveling many hours to get to the borrower to collect a payment, and may make a circuit encompassing many days.  When these loan officers come back to the branch, these payments are usually manually tabulated and entered into the record.  This assumes all goes smoothly and the unpaved roads are not bogged down in mud and the river crossing isn't impassable. The fact that Kiva is giving the MFI Field Partner until the end of the month to verify payments is reality on the ground-- it doesn't get much quicker.

This change was certainly not focused on making the lender experience better.  It was about bringing reality into the equation and attempting to describe what really is going on.  I would beg to differ as to the important piece of all this.  It isn't about us the lenders but about the entrepreneur borrower.  If he or she needs three months to pay back a loan, then we need to give them three months-- even if it takes that much again to get it back to us.  The system will certainly get smoother and details will get clearer.  But even when the dust settles, it is inconceivable that Kiva lenders will get their money back in the same time frame as the borrower has to pay the loan.  The loan details posted is the start of getting a more realistically accurate picture.

Dan

[MTNEER]

It isn't about us the lenders but about the entrepreneur borrower.  If he or she needs three months to pay back a loan, then we need to give them three months-- even if it takes that much again to get it back to us. 

Dan

Dan, I think we are chasing each others tails here.

I agree with your statement 100%. Its all being done for the borrowers and not lenders. I am not calling for the field officer to travel faster on his rounds or work longer hours. I am not under estimating the challenges faced by the field guys. I was born & raised in the country my money is going and that's why I am here.

Yes, I am a strict task master. I expect people (of whatever capacity) to keep their word. IF the borrower needs whatever time: let them disclose it and post it on Kiva. As with life, I understand there will be a small minority who will default or request changes. Fine - fact of life. But that expectation of a deadline should never be made loosey-goosey.

But.. I am hugely.. HUGELY suspicious of any financial tomfoolery after the recent debacle in the financial world. I really don't trust any "creative" financial jargon or the banking types. I want my money to spend its time either with me.. or the borrower. If there is some "reality" time it needs traveling across the seas - let it be disclosed as part of the loan term (right now a 3 month loan can be as much as 8 months for the lender, as pointed out by the earlier poster). If Kiva knows XXX MFI & Big Bank needs 2 months to collect, balance & transfer money to/ from wherever - let them add that to the expected repayment timeline (3 months with borrower + 2 months in transit = 5 months). Don't tell me its a 3 month loan and then when I show up in 3 months: "oops.. you know what, XXX Bank and MFI need 2 more months, its reality "balancing" time... haha and I have your money now.. too bad. see u in 2 months".

You are comfortable with Kiva and other partner's assurances that those two months when the money is neither with me or the borrower is all fine and necessary - even when you have no idea what's happening. I am not. I want that time disclosed and not sneakily tagged on; as has happened lately.

[random]

Yes, I am a strict task master. I expect people (of whatever capacity) to keep their word. IF the borrower needs whatever time: let them disclose it and post it on Kiva. As with life, I understand there will be a small minority who will default or request changes. Fine - fact of life. But that expectation of a deadline should never be made loosey-goosey.

But.. I am hugely.. HUGELY suspicious of any financial tomfoolery after the recent debacle in the financial world. I really don't trust any "creative" financial jargon or the banking types. I want my money to spend its time either with me.. or the borrower. If there is some "reality" time it needs traveling across the seas - let it be disclosed as part of the loan term (right now a 3 month loan can be as much as 8 months for the lender, as pointed out by the earlier poster). If Kiva knows XXX MFI & Big Bank needs 2 months to collect, balance & transfer money to/ from wherever - let them add that to the expected repayment timeline (3 months with borrower + 2 months in transit = 5 months). Don't tell me its a 3 month loan and then when I show up in 3 months: "oops.. you know what, XXX Bank and MFI need 2 more months, its reality "balancing" time... haha and I have your money now.. too bad. see u in 2 months".

You are comfortable with Kiva and other partner's assurances that those two months when the money is neither with me or the borrower is all fine and necessary - even when you have no idea what's happening. I am not. I want that time disclosed and not sneakily tagged on; as has happened lately.

 

I agree 100%

The money has to be somewhere and the lenders should be informed up front as a matter of courtesy if nothing else.

Some of the loans already funded and partially paid back have now been rescheduled with months added on, who is profiting from this delay? That money is somewhere earning interest.