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Author Topic: Risk-Based Searching-currency exchange,non-payment,partner rating,delinquency...  (Read 97708 times)
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Peter S
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« Reply To This #300 on: May 11, 2010, 01:11:05 PM »

. . . When the partner page shows "N/A" for profit/interest it doesn't mean that it's unknown, but that it doesn't apply since the partner charges no interest.  . . .

I'm not sure we can make that assumption, Paul.   I tend to think it's more probable that a value of N/A against Portfolio Yield means Not Available, in the same way that (logically) N/A against Average Loan Size (as % of Per Capita Income) must also mean Not Available.  Further, I think that on the partner pages, a value of "No" against "Interest and Fees are Charged" is just as likely to be dictated by the value "N/A" for Portfolio Yield as the other way round.  This might seem overly pessimistic about the quality of the information on the Kiva partner pages, but being a Kiva lender for just on 3 years now tends to have left me with somewhat reduced expectations in this area.

I think from what we know about how microfinance works, in the absence of a very specific statement in relation to a particular MFI, it's pretty unlikely that any of Kiva's partners would not be charging fees and/or interest.  I know some of them are sustained operationally by support from charities and churches, but even in that case I think zero interest and charges would be pretty rare.  I don't think we can take "Interest and Fees are Charged: No" on the partner page as sufficient evidence of an MFI being such a departure from the microfinance norm as not to charge any interest and fees.

When Kiva says in the FAQ you quoted from that "We also require Field Partners to fully disclose their interest rates" I think that's an aspiration rather than a nailed down absolute fact, and can't really be used as evidence of anything.  Kiva also requires Field Partners to report at least once on each loan's impact, but we know that doesn't happen.

Sorry if this seems negative, and like everyone else here I'm not at all negative about your wonderful application.

cheers

Peter
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nuclearspike
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« Reply To This #301 on: May 11, 2010, 01:45:00 PM »

So, I should probably go back to the "Exclude where unknown" check box. Or maybe a drop down of
"Portfolio Yield" (not interest) with options of [All|Unknown Only|Exclude Unknown] with All being the default and "Unknown Only" would turn off the profit and interest/portyield sliders. Sound like the best solution? Tonight is my last night to do anything to it until I get back.

I appreciate all the input, kivabank has definitely pushed me to learn many details of how kiva works and the veterans' insights into what cannot be trusted with kiva's FAQs definitely helps. Thanks Cheesy

Paul
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 01:47:14 PM by nuclearspike » Logged

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RichardF
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« Reply To This #302 on: May 11, 2010, 01:52:12 PM »

I don't think we can take "Interest and Fees are Charged: No" on the partner page as sufficient evidence of an MFI being such a departure from the microfinance norm as not to charge any interest and fees.

When I see "Interest and Fees are Charged: No" on the Kiva Field Partner page AND Entrpreneur page, what I believe is that Kiva has made the direct, unambiguous assertion that it Knows the Portfolio Yield (at least for Kiva Entrepreneurs) is 0.00%.  Whether that assertion is true or justified is quite another matter altogether.  If the assertion is not true or justified, then Kiva's credibility must, once again, be called into question.  Until proven otherwise I, for now, take Kiva at its word.
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nuclearspike
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« Reply To This #303 on: May 11, 2010, 01:56:48 PM »

When I see "Interest and Fees are Charged: No" on the Kiva Field Partner page AND Entrpreneur page, what I believe is that Kiva has made the direct, unambiguous assertion that it Knows the Portfolio Yield (at least for Kiva Entrepreneurs) is 0.00%.  Whether that assertion is true or justified is quite another matter altogether.  If the assertion is not true or justified, then Kiva's credibility must, one again, be called into question.  Until proven otherwise I, for now, take Kiva at its word.

KB is not currently pulling the "Charges Interest" Yes/No data off the partner page so I cannot just do a quick DB search on this... are there cases where a Partner has "Yes" (that they charge interest) but N/A (Not Applicable) for Profit / Portfolio Yield?

N/A can mean either Not Available or Not Applicable. My assumption is that Kiva would never involve themselves with a partner that doesn't report their interest rates so N/A would be Not Applicable since they don't charge interest, as the quoted bit from their FAQ stated about it being a requirement. Isn't part of the job of the Kiva Fellows to verify this type of data?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 02:18:56 PM by nuclearspike » Logged

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Peter S
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« Reply To This #304 on: May 11, 2010, 02:18:50 PM »

KB is not currently pulling the "Charges Interest" Yes/No data off the partner page so I cannot just do a quick DB search on this... are there cases where a Partner has "Yes" (that they charge interest) but N/A (Not Applicable) for Profit / Portfolio Yield?

N/A can mean either Not Available or Not Applicable, and in this case, I need to know which it means :O

can't help with the question about Yes and N/A, but the N/A ambiguity has a long history on the Kiva site, and has been puzzling some of us for a while...

a suggestion / question for Liz & Gerard

should Kiva think about deciding on and sticking to a standard meaning for "N/A" on the site?  With the advent of the new mechanism for (some) catastrophic currency risk being shifted to lenders, there are currrently three meanings that I can think of:

re currency risk
N/A = not applicable (because the loan is disbursed in USD)

re average interest rate borrower pays to Kiva partner
(and average local money lender interest rate)
N/A = not available

re some Field Partners' delinquency rates
N/A = we know but we're not telling you (as transparency might have been misleading under PA-1)


Peter


I agree, Richard, we should be able to take Kiva at its word, but given the history of imprecise and just plain wrong data in all sorts of areas, it might be as well to take all the data on kiva.org with a pinch of salt.  As the philosopher Rumsfeld remarked, "There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we now know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. These are things we do not know we don’t know."   With Kiva, I increasingly have the sense that some of the things we think we know are actually unknown unknowns in disguise....

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RichardF
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« Reply To This #305 on: May 11, 2010, 03:08:56 PM »

Peter - I agree with all the philosophizing.  I also believe Kiva sometimes gets confused about such things.

Paul - I can't recall any Field Partner case where 1 "No" didn't lead to 3 "N/A"s.  In fact, I just did a quick scan of all the non-closed Field Partners and found seven "No"s.  All of them look like this...

Interest & Fees are Charged: No
 
Portfolio Yield: N/A 

Profitability
(Return on Assets): N/A 

Average Loan Size
(% of Per Capita Income): N/A 
 
Here's the list of Field Partners I found where "Interest & Fees are Charged: No".







Mary - Don't pay any attention to us guys!!!  Cool Wink Laugh
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RichardF
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« Reply To This #306 on: May 12, 2010, 08:14:32 PM »

If nothing else, here are some notes to myself about how to use the Advanced Keywords search. 

Each group of keywords can be used alone or in combination.  Terms in each group also can be required (+), excluded (-) or just one of the group.  However, because some groups (Country, Partner, Sector and Activity) are based on pre-defined lists, all the possible combinations of (+term a, term b, -term c) don’t necessarily produce different results.  Because the other groups (Name, Use, Description and UseOrDescription) are open-ended, just about any combination of search terms might produce different results for them.

Advanced searches can be of two general types – “Interested in These Loans” and “Not Interested in These Loans.”

Interested in These Loans

Combinations of interesting advanced keywords searches can produce distinct results two basic ways:

COUNTRY() PARTNER() NAME() SECTOR() ACTIVITY() USE() DESCRIPTION()

or

COUNTRY() PARTNER() NAME() SECTOR() ACTIVITY() USEORDESCRIPTION()

Any selection of groups from either combination can produce unique results.  However, combining “USEORDESCRIPTION()” with “USE()” or “DESCRIPTION()” does not produce unique results, so there is no point in using them together.

Individual groups can produce unique results using “+/ /-“ as described below:

Group Option   Example
   
COUNTRY()   
COUNTRY(a, b)    COUNTRY(Afghanistan, Benin)
COUNTRY(-c)    COUNTRY(-Cambodia)
   
PARTNER()   
PARTNER(a, b)   PARTNER(AMK, BRAC Uganda)
PARTNER(-c)   PARTNER(-CRAN)
   
NAME()   
NAME(a, b, c)   NAME(Group, Jan, Pat)
NAME(a, b, -c)   NAME(Group, Jan, -Pat)
NAME(+a, b, c)   NAME(+Group, Jan, Pat)
NAME(+a, b, -c)   NAME(+Group, Jan, -Pat)
NAME(+a, -c)   NAME(+Group, -Pat)
   
SECTOR()   
SECTOR(a, b)   SECTOR(Agriculture, Arts)
SECTOR(-c)   SECTOR(-Construction)
   
ACTIVITY()   
ACTIVITY(a, b, c)   ACTIVITY(Sales, Prod, Food)
ACTIVITY(a, b, -c)    ACTIVITY(Sales, Prod, -Food)
ACTIVITY(+a, b, c)    ACTIVITY(+Sales, Prod, Food
ACTIVITY(+a, b, -c)   ACTIVITY(+Sales, Prod, -Food)
   
USE()   
USE(a, b, c)   USE(buy, merchandise, school)
USE(a, b, -c)   USE(buy, merchandise, -school)
USE(+a, b, c)   USE(+buy, merchandise, school)
USE(+a, b, -c)   USE(+buy, merchandise, -school)
USE(+a, -c)   USE(+buy, -school)
   
DESCRIPTION()   
DESCRIPTION(a, b, c)   DESCRIPTION(buy, merchandise, school)
DESCRIPTION(a, b, -c)   DESCRIPTION(buy, merchandise, -school)
DESCRIPTION(+a, b, c)   DESCRIPTION(+buy, merchandise, school)
DESCRIPTION(+a, b, -c)   DESCRIPTION(+buy, merchandise, -school)
DESCRIPTION(+a, -c)   DESCRIPTION(+buy, -school)
   
USEORDESCRIPTION()   
USEORDESCRIPTION(a, b, c)    USEORDESCRIPTION(buy, merchandise, school)
USEORDESCRIPTION(a, b, -c)    USEORDESCRIPTION(buy, merchandise, -school)
USEORDESCRIPTION(+a, b, c)    USEORDESCRIPTION(+buy, merchandise, school)
USEORDESCRIPTION(+a, b, -c)    USEORDESCRIPTION(+buy, merchandise, -school)
USEORDESCRIPTION(+a, -c)    USEORDESCRIPTION(+buy, -school)

Not Interested in These Loans

Combinations of advanced keywords searches for loans that are not of interest work like the sculptor’s chisel chipping away at the form.  Only one style applies for any combination of groups, negation.  All terms must be preceded by the “-” sign, such as the general filter and example below.

COUNTRY(-c) PARTNER(-c) NAME(-c) SECTOR(-c) ACTIVITY(-c) USE(-c) DESCRIPTION(-c)

COUNTRY(-Cambodia) PARTNER(-CRAN) NAME(-Pat) SECTOR(-Construction) ACTIVITY(-Food) USE(-school) DESCRIPTION(-school)

Using the “Not Interested” Filter with Other Filters

  As it turns out, the Not Interested filter can be used in combination with any other filter.  A particularly handy version of combining the Not Interested filter is with the Kiva Bank Portfolio Balancing filters.  This can be accomplished with three simple steps:
  • First, select the Not Interested filter from the Saved Filters list and copy it from the Keywords search box.
  • Second, create any Portfolio Balancing option and click the Filter! button.
  • Third, paste the Not Interested filter next to the Portfolio Balancing filter.

Now, the list of matching loans will be based on the Portfolio Balancing filter without any of the Not Interested loans.

Is that cool or what?!!!   Yes Wink
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 07:33:49 AM by RichardF » Logged

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nuclearspike
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« Reply To This #307 on: May 12, 2010, 08:58:30 PM »

Kiva took down all the LAPO loans. KB finally has matching "Matching/Total" numbers again! I removed my notice. I'm glad it happened when it did, I wake at 4am and go get on my plane and it was scheduled to keep displaying for another 5 days. Smiley
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bikeme1952
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« Reply To This #308 on: May 12, 2010, 09:11:20 PM »

314 Refunded LAPO loans -
http://www.kiva.org/lend?partner_id=20&status=Refunded&sortBy=New+to+Old
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David2051
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« Reply To This #309 on: May 12, 2010, 09:33:24 PM »

Kiva took down all the LAPO loans.

Well, it's about d--- time!
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